Kim Ades: [00:00:05]
Hello, hello. My name is Kim Ades and I am the President and Founder Frame of Mind Coaching. And you have just joined The Frame of Mind Coaching Podcast, where we invite leaders from all over the world to come onto the podcast and get coached live and in person.
Today it is my absolute pleasure to introduce you to my guest. Her name is Kate Bradley Chernis and she comes from a company called Lately.
Kate, welcome!
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:00:32]
Hi, Kim. Thank you so much. Hello from flurry-filled New York, but not New York City. About two hours North in the country.
Kim Ades: [00:00:42]
Okay. Well, we're so happy to have you on the show.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:00:45]
Thanks.
Kim Ades: [00:00:45]
Even if it's flurry-filled. Tell us a little bit about what you do. What is Lately?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:00:51]
Yeah, thanks. So Lately is the only social media platform that creates content for you. And we do that by instantly learning what your audience wants to read, hear, or watch by studying your analytics. And then we apply what we learn to your long form content and atomize it into hundreds and hundreds of social posts.
So, like, this video, you would just upload it, push a button and we would instantly give you about 40 or so many movie trailers of like the best one-liners that you or I say.
Kim Ades: [00:01:23]
Really? And how does it establish what is the best? Like, when you say we analyze what your... I guess, audience wants to hear, is it based on what the audience has liked in the past? Or is it based on who the audience is? Is it based on who you want your audience to be? Like, how does that work?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:01:41]
Yeah. It can be a combination. So, we first study the analytics that you give us through connecting to your social accounts. And we're looking for what people like and comment and share. And we build writing models based on literally the words in the social posts that have had that high engagement.
But we also take into consideration what's happening with our other customers as well, and some general best practices. And then you have the ability to feed the AI and constantly curated. So, it's really important to us that humans participate, because, you know, human connection as you know, better than anyone, Kim, it's... you can't replicate this through a robot, right?
Kim Ades: [00:02:22]
Right.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:02:22]
And you don't want to, right? So you want the robot to start you at third base, that's what we do. And that's saying something, right? Like, getting you all the way to third base, but the human is the part that takes you home. That gets the run. Right?
Kim Ades: [00:02:36]
Interesting. So interesting. So, I'm very kind of personally curious about this, 'cause as you know, we create a ton of content, and like, would you just go back into kind of historical content and you would just put it into your kind of machine and make that all happen?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:02:55]
Totally, 'cause why not? Right? I mean, so I hate-- it's like, I feel like content is like garlic. Like, you work so hard to peel that sucker and then chop up every little piece and everything from the knife has to get in the pan. Like, I don't leave anything to, you know, to waste. And content is the same way. You work hard on this.
I mean, I know, I was in the receiving end of your setup. I know how much time you guys already spent. Right? And getting butts in seats live or at the time of publication is an antiquated idea, by the way. And marketing has been very slow on catching up, especially conferences, as you can tell. And they're trying to radically pivot, you know, right now, but this trend has already been happening. Just think of the way you digest TV or radio, right? Not live generally, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:03:40]
Right.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:03:41]
Which is why Clubhouse is, by the way, a weird anomaly right now. So what we really, you know, I like to do this with not only content that I've created, but also earned media. So I'm going to ask you for this file afterwards and use it too, right? 'Cause why would I waste this amazing opportunity of my time?
Kim Ades: [00:04:00]
Right. So let me just ask you, you said it's a social media platform. So does that mean that it's like a Facebook or does it feed social media platforms? Like Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:04:15]
Yeah. Good question. So social media management platform. So my mistake. But so our competitors would be HootSuite or Sprinklr or Spread Social...
Kim Ades: [00:04:26]
Okay, okay.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:04:26]
...who by the way, are all a decade or more old and haven't evolved what so ever.
Kim Ades: [00:04:31]
They don't know anything anymore, right?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:04:33]
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:04:34]
Yeah. So tell me, what is your greatest challenge right now? Like, how can I help you through coaching?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:04:40]
Yeah. So, you know, I wrote down something when we were prepping before and that was figuring out what the... So I have two, actually. One that I didn't get to talk about earlier, but I was thinking about this morning.
So we're in this weird place as a company where there's that book "Crossing the Chasm". And so we think we're crossing the chasm...
Kim Ades: [00:04:59]
Okay.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:05:00]
And what's required to do that is to basically upend everything you know that works and to do something new, right? And to switch from the early adopters to, you know, the next group of people. And that requires different marketing messaging, a different customer profile, different pricing. Like, there's a whole, you know, big shift there. What's sticking with me is that every time I do anything that anybody tells me to do, it doesn't work.
Kim Ades: [00:05:32]
So, give me an example, be very, very specific. And really tell me what they've told you to do and how you've done it and how it hasn't worked. And then I'm going to ask you a different question.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:05:42]
Okay. Yeah. So, I'm in SAS, which is software as a service, right? And I'm in the venture fundraising game. So that's a whole world with very specific rules. And in SAS what's been taught generally is there's two ways to scale. It's all about scaling quickly, right? And one way is throw a lot of money at marketing. Right. So paid advertising, et cetera.
We learned that pay-- because that's how you scale. You typically can't scale organic 'cause organic means by hand, right? Manual. But we have janked the system by using our own product.
Kim Ades: [00:06:20]
Yeah.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:06:21]
Right. So Lately uses Lately to market Lately and we have a 98% sales conversion. Gary Vaynerchuk is my customer.
Kim Ades: [00:06:29]
Wow.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:06:29]
And we get customers a 12000% increase in engagement. Right?
Kim Ades: [00:06:34]
Okay.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:06:35]
'Cause we walk our talk externally with how we market, how we treat our customers once we get them and then how we are internally to each other. Okay? So...
Kim Ades: [00:06:45]
Sounds good!
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:06:46]
Yeah. So that's great. The tough thing on that end. So there's two ways. So this is the one way. So the tough thing is this scalable, because the way we do it is I do interviews. I'm interesting. I'm a woman. Rock and roll, DJ, AI, you know, all the things. And I get a lot of-- I do a lot of podcasts. I do one a day basically. And I use it, you know, it's our number-- it's our only lead gen source. That's it. And we drive everyone into a demo.
This is also a complicated thing, because the demo requires a human to spend a half an hour with you, and that's not scalable. But we've learned to make everyone we touch into an advocate because the thing I know best, when I had 20 million listeners at XM, is how to make fans into evangelists. I'm an expert at that. Right. And when you have evangelists, they go and get customers for you. So I believe that's way more powerful than an ad.
Okay. So, I focused our efforts all on that. And we've been able to bootstrap essentially our ourselves in, against all odds, all the odds around being a female entrepreneur in a million other things. And I increased our MRR, our monthly recurring revenue, 204% in 10 months doing just this, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:08:05]
Okay.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:08:05]
So...
Kim Ades: [00:08:06]
So are you unhappy with that rate of growth?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:08:08]
No, I think it's amazing, but it's not enough for the industry. It doesn't matter how many bells I ring, I'm a female entrepreneur in MarTech. Strike, strike.
Kim Ades: [00:08:18]
So, hold on a second. Two ways to scale.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:08:22]
Yeah. The other way is... My brain just broke for one second.
So it's either paid advertising, or you set up, like, basically an SDR bank. So a sales development rep, bunch of people do cold calls and cold emails. Right. And it's a numbers game. So how many people can you annoy and hit? Somebody's bound to pick up the phone and you just create a funnel based on... you learn what the numbers game is, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:08:51]
Okay.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:08:52]
We don't like that because we don't like to be on the receiving end of that. And I believe that system is broken. Now, there's certainly companies that still do that, but I don't want to be that company.
Kim Ades: [00:09:03]
Okay. So I still don't see what your struggle is, 'cause it sounds to me like you have a very clear vision and a very clear set of values about how you want to communicate and how you want to come across. And you've already implemented a system that is working. Your frustration is rate of growth. If you were to grow faster, do you have the capacity to handle that faster growth?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:09:31]
Well, so thanks for digging in. And I mean, the question is can this last? Right? Because I'm only one human, how many podcasts can I freaking do? Right? We have 388 customers, and also are these customers the early adopters? That's only a small-- so if you want to grow to the larger crew, you have to change, right? I mean... So that's my-- and I can see it already dwindling, frankly. Right? So I know something has to change.
Kim Ades: [00:09:57]
What are you watching? What do you mean "I can see dwindling"? What's dwindling?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:10:01]
So our KPI, are our key performance indicator is demo requests. 'Cause I know I'm going to convert it at a rate of 98%. Right? And I know the podcast that I do or the interviews that I do drive demo requests. It's been a very strange mix because on the one hand, because I haven't raised in two years and wasn't able to pay my staff until recently, right?
They haven't been paid in two years. I didn't have enough people to address those, those demo requests. I didn't have my software updated enough to help automate with self-service capabilities because I couldn't pay my tech team for example. Right?
That's starting to flip because I'm able to pay people again, which is great, but we're... The other challenge we have is disqualification.
So a lot of people want to use Lately, but a lot of people who... aren't quite adept enough marketers. They don't want to do work. Marketing takes work. So we have a very long tail. Like, every Gary V is a customer. He has 20 million followers. All of his followers would be great customers for us. Right? But they're such micro marketers that the product is too advanced for them right now. It doesn't mean I can't be like Salesforce and go downmarket someday. But right now that's not, not the case.
And so number one, are we running out of our target audience? And then... 'cause we've seen the KPI of the demo requests go down. We've also seen more and more of those disqualified people come in. That said, we did just totally change our website. All the messaging, put at pricing to repel those customers, frankly, right? To help us better qualify. And all of these things are in place right now, but Kim, something... My gut is what everybody pays for.
You know, my gut is what wins us and my gut is telling me that the way to win is going to be a combination of what we're doing now and something else. And I don't know what the something else is because we're upselling now to a larger market, a more sophisticated market, not quite enterprise, but in that, you know, arena.
And they certainly expect certain things like a sales deck, for example. But we keep learning that even those customers that we sell want to be treated like humans. They want the regular chit-chat. They don't want the whole boring ass, you know, "treat me like I'm a logo"... A logo to logo conversation. I don't want to... I don't want to do that also.
But... I'm sorry to talk so long. But, like... at the same time, I know that I've played that game a little bit before, so I had enough taste in enterprise land where, you know, you have to demo a million people internally and find out who the check writer is, and it's a very long process. Unless you have a Slack model, by the way.
So the Slack model was build something so low enough price that nobody needed to get permission from their boss to write the check. Right. And that's how it spread. Now, we tried it that way a long time ago. And the value, I don't know if you've ever heard this metaphor, but it's like the Cuisinart value. Like, somebody, I forget--
Williams-Sonoma sold the Cuisinart. It was awesome. They priced it at a hundred dollars. Nobody wanted it. So they put in a second model priced at like $350 and everybody started buying it. Right. So it's this idea of what the value looks like. So when we price ourselves low people churn because they don't understand it, or they compare us to Hootsuite and we're not Hootsuite, we're a fucking rocket ship, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:13:45]
Okay. Okay.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:13:46]
TMI?
Kim Ades: [00:13:46]
Let me flip-- No. Beautiful. I mean, I listened to you and I'm falling in love. But so that's exciting and I'm sure that that happens over and over and over and over again with you. And that is your experience.
So the question becomes... First of all, I find historically that when leaders have a place where they're stuck, it's usually a function of a set of beliefs that's causing, let's call it a bottleneck. So you have a set of beliefs and we just started talking and I'd love to spend more time with you to explore them. But right off the bat, you have a set of beliefs. And w one of the beliefs is I have to be the one to do all the work. Right? And so right off the bat, that belief is creating stress for you.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:14:32]
Hmm.
Kim Ades: [00:14:33]
Okay. So now the question is...
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:14:34]
Yes.
Kim Ades: [00:14:35]
...I have to do all the work and it has to look like this.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:14:39]
Yes.
Kim Ades: [00:14:40]
For now. And so what we want to do is push back and say, does it have to be you? And does it have to look like this? So if demos are working, can we automate demos? Up to a point to self screen a whole bunch of people out and then offer them that human touch.
Maybe we can create a process where we interact with people a little later on. So you're interacting with your people and not as much with some of the people who are not qualified for purchase. So that's a question.
Another question is you are the spokesperson, clearly, and you're doing a phenomenal job. Do you need to be the only spokesperson?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:15:19]
No. And I've already got two of my other team that I'm pushing them into doing these interviews because they're great at it. So like, you know, it's funny though, like I saw that early on and... investors don't see that as a way of scale. I'm like, what? That seems like stupid to me. Of course it is. It's just so funny.
Kim Ades: [00:15:37]
Well, and you're trying to prove the concept, right?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:15:40]
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:15:40]
And that's what you really need to do. And then the other piece of it is like, you're talking about interviews, which I know that they work.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:15:48]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:15:48]
They really do. But what else is there? And so...
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:15:52]
Yeah, what else is there?
Kim Ades: [00:15:53]
What else is there? And there could be a million other elses. So, one else is if you have early adopters, how are we leveraging them appropriately? How are we partnering with them? How are we getting them? You talk about that they're evangelists. What exactly are they doing? And can we hone that?
Can we not only monetize it, but can we create a process that's easy for them to execute, that's repeatable and that's manageable? Because I know that when you have an evangelist, it's wonderful, but it's also sporadic. It's haphazard. Right? We don't know when they're going to say what. Right? It's not part of a process and it's not anything we can predict.
So when we have an evangelist, we say that's amazing, but we can't put it on our spreadsheet and forecast their evangel-- evangelical whims, right? That not going to work. And so the question becomes, are there partnerships to be had with evangelists?
I'm going to go one step further. It sounds like what you were doing is incredible. So who are the influencers that are willing to be actually your investors?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:17:05]
Yeah, Gary.
Kim Ades: [00:17:07]
Okay. But there's more than just Gary in the world. Right. And so now what does that look like? What could that be like? So instead of creating the whole pitch deck methodology, and I get it, it doesn't suit you, it doesn't fit for you. It's not who you want to be or how you want to do things, then who else can be an investor?
And perhaps investment looks a little different. Maybe it's an investment of time. Maybe it's a low investment for some kind of return. And so we need to think about what investment looks like that isn't necessarily traditional. Because everything you're telling me, you're screaming out "I am not traditional. I don't want to do things the old fashioned way".
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:17:52]
I don't.
Kim Ades: [00:17:54]
And so, in order for you to do things a new way, we need to think about relationships differently. And we need to think about what is a win-win for both of us.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:18:04]
Right.
Kim Ades: [00:18:05]
So for me as an example, I mean, I'm not Gary V by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm very interested in your product because I do create a lot of content. So if I see that it works, what relationship can we create that allows you to create a predictive system?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:18:26]
Yeah, so thank you. And we've got... We've started down this path as well, like, with our customer. So we created a Slack channel for our customers only. And started out a little half-assed cause we didn't have time, but we've now devoted someone there and we can see the conversations happening.
We did it because we wanted them to start crowdsourcing their own... We find that our customers have marketing questions all the time, some related to Lately, some not. And they also really value community. We do a lot of our own live shows and the chat is pretty lively, and it's impressive to me to see how well they want to help each other and chat.
So we wanted to create that community. But it's funny because now everybody's doing that. And so now we're striving to figure out like, well, what's special about us. The one thing there is we have a channel called Sharing is Caring and we do it internally with our employ-- my own employees, and we do it with our customers, and anybody can post any social link there to something that they've written they want people to pile on, you know. And it's fun, because it's great to watch people help each other, but they always help us.
And I'm sort of judicious about when I ask for help, like, "Hey guys, would you mind piling under this?" And they all do! It's amazing, Kim. It really is. Like you said, it's not predictable.
However... The other thing we do, by the way, is every customer or target that comes into our midst, we instantly follow them on all of our social channels. And I have an intern that asks them to connect as me on LinkedIn, so we can watch them and we're sharing their content like we're being friendly and nice. And then we... So they feel like it's a warm lead. Right?
Kim Ades: [00:20:05]
I understand that, but that's all like, let's call that gravy.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:20:08]
It's gravy. That's gravy. That's right.
Kim Ades: [00:20:10]
That's your customer service effort. That's not your business model.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:20:14]
Right.
Kim Ades: [00:20:14]
Do you understand what I'm saying? Like...
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:20:15]
Yes.
Kim Ades: [00:20:15]
...oh, we share and they're nice. So you're counting on their kindness.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:20:20]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:20:20]
You're not counting on a built-in system.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:20:24]
Yeah, I need a system.
Kim Ades: [00:20:25]
And what I'm suggesting to you is that perhaps there are some... Let's see, you said you have 318 clients. Maybe in that 318, there are 20 of them that are willing to enter into a more formal relationship where there are KPIs for their voice.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:20:46]
Yeah. So, it's worth revisiting, to be honest. We've done-- we've tried affiliate programs about four times now, and they've been a huge waste in the fucking... Pain in the ass.
Kim Ades: [00:20:57]
I understand.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:20:58]
So... We need a new way.
Kim Ades: [00:21:00]
Even the word affiliate sounds icky, right?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:21:03]
Yeah, it does! Exactly, right?
Kim Ades: [00:21:04]
And I know. I tried it myself. Affiliate programs don't work, but partnerships work.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:21:09]
Right, they do.
Kim Ades: [00:21:10]
Partnerships where there's a win-win for you and the other person in a very unique way. And what that means is you need to understand their unique needs and it means you have to explore and say, "what could this look like? What would a win-win be?" As opposed to, you know, "here I'll give you 10% for any sale you make".
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:21:30]
Yeah. I hate that.
Kim Ades: [00:21:32]
I hate it too. So...
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:21:33]
It doesn't work.
Kim Ades: [00:21:34]
So your job right now is to do a little research and literally take, you know, 20 of your-- whatever, 50, it doesn't really matter... of your clients and say, "what would it look like if we grew this together?"
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:21:49]
Yeah, I will think about this. I mean, what, when I-- you're right. I mean, what I know is that I need to look at the things... it's always right in front of me. I know that, it always is. Right? And it's just a matter of, like, re-imagining what's in front of me and putting our twist on it, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:22:05]
Well, If you have fans, and it sounds like you do, how do you work with them in a whole other way, at a whole other level, in a whole other kind of relationship that isn't just, you know, "okay. Yeah. I'll be kind to you"? It's more formal.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:22:20]
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, we have... so, literally every day for the last year, somebody writes about us spontaneously on social, every single day. Right.
Kim Ades: [00:22:29]
Amazing.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:22:29]
Amazing. That's amazing! 'Cause we're little old us, right? That's we're not Hootsuite or Gary V, for sure. But it's... And the human connection part has been a big piece of it. Right? I don't... I don't know what formalizing that looks like.
Kim Ades: [00:22:49] Here's the thing, is that you're thinking that you need to have an answer. And my recommendation to you is the next step is a little research and it's to go and have conversations with people and find out, what would really turn their crank? What would get them excited about getting involved at a higher level? Understanding your financial restraints.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:23:11]
Yeah. Okay.
Kim Ades: [00:23:12]
What could that look like? And they might throw something at you that you totally didn't expect.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:23:18]
Yeah. I think that I said out loud, what I know they value and it's community, right? It's not... not money. The ones who really care.
Kim Ades: [00:23:26]
Right. But still, maybe it's a different con-- maybe what they're looking for is direct consulting from you and in exchange... You know, I'm making it up.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:23:36]
Yeah, yeah. I don't want to do that. But yeah, I get it.
Kim Ades: [00:23:38]
I understand that, but maybe it's a mastermind.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:23:42]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:23:43]
You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be a one-on-one. Maybe it's, you know, "I want stocks in your company". Maybe it's something else, but you don't know, because we haven't asked.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:23:56]
I'm totally open to a creative brainstorm on that. So, I will think about my customers in a more productive way.
Kim Ades: [00:24:06]
Well, talk to them. Ask them very pointed questions and say, here's my goal. Here's what I want to do. And I envision that you could be a really big part of this. A) are you interested? B) what could this look like for us?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:24:21]
My one challenge, kim, here is that the customers we have, for the most part, are so small that I'd have to light-- I'd have to light up all of them, right? Not just one or two or 10 or 20, because it's not-- their networks are smaller than mine for the most part. Right?
So just being very practical that I need-- so it has to be... I mean, we've created a channel partnership product, basically, that we're about to launch with HubSpot and a few others, that will be the more technical aspect of this. But, you know, being frank, like, it doesn't make sense to...
You know, you can have a million people for $1 or one person for a million dollar. Right. I got a million people for a dollar right now. Not really, but I'm in that place, you know? So I have to figure out--
Kim Ades: [00:25:11]
But you have those people for a dollar, maybe $5, maybe $5,000.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:25:17]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:25:18]
Right? But here's what's interesting for me, what I feel is like you're lacking critical information from these people about what a true partnership would look like and how they would benefit from something in association with you.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:25:41]
Sure.
Kim Ades: [00:25:42]
So. You know, like, again, do you have to be the one, does it have to look-- all we know for sure is you want it to be different.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:25:51]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:25:52]
You don't want to follow the same old pattern. So you're about to create something new. And you're like, I know there's something new, except you're not communicating with those very people who are probably chock-full of information. Right now you need to gather that information and then do some analysis. That's where you are, I think, in your stage.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:26:13]
Yeah. I think that is a good piece of the problem to, like, re-examine. For sure.
Kim Ades: [00:26:19]
Yeah. And really like, when you say "my gut works for me", that's amazing because so many people ignore their gut.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:26:28]
Well, I learned the hard way.
Kim Ades: [00:26:29]
Right. And so, not that my gut is more important or valuable than yours, but part of what makes your gut work is the relationships you have with your existing clients.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:26:41]
Yeah. I love them. They're really wonderful people.
Kim Ades: [00:26:43]
Exactly. So we need to tune in there a little bit more and turn on your gut at a higher level. So have those conversations with those people.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:26:53]
Okay.
Kim Ades: [00:26:54]
Does that makes sense?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:26:55]
It does make sense. I'm thinking about all the other shit I got to address at the same time, of course, and how all these pieces can fit together, you know? And I'm excited about it! Like, these are all good problems to have. They don't keep me up at night because I'm, like, freaked out. They keep me up at night because, like, I want to know the answer, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:27:13]
Yeah, and you're excited and your energy is oozing that excitement, so...
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:27:17]
Thanks. I'm also tired, to be honest. I mean, this is so long, you know, this haul-- it's a very long haul and...
Kim Ades: [00:27:24]
It's a very long haul at a very strange time in our lives.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:27:28]
Yeah. And you can see, I know. I know now why... I'm 47, so I don't have children. I can see now why--
Kim Ades: [00:27:37] You look like you're 23.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:27:39]
Thanks. I spend a lot of money on eye cream. And...
Kim Ades: [00:27:42]
Okay. You need to share.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:27:44]
That's my thing. And it's so good. I'll tell you my contact. Yeah. It's expensive, but it's the thing I decided to spend my money on.
So, you know, I think that doing things when you're 20, whether it's having children or having a company, I see the wisdom in that now, but I wouldn't have had the wisdom to do those things, you know, then. But the energy... It's a lot of energy, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:28:08]
I understand. I will tell you, you have it. It's in spades, lean on it.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:28:13]
Thanks.
Kim Ades: [00:28:13]
You're good. You're going to-- like, there's no question in my mind that you're going to succeed.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:28:18]
Thank you.
Kim Ades: [00:28:18]
And it's just about tapping into the right information and being okay to kind of slow down in order to speed up for a minute. Right? So, like, just slow down, gather your information, have the right conversations and suddenly, like, the light will flash and you'll say, "Oh, this is the model".
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:28:34]
Yeah. I feel like I just need a little brain clear. I want-- I need a vacation. Who doesn't, but yeah, I definitely-- so the other thing I said that I wanted to talk to you about was that there's a combination of fear and anger around either what I've been through in this industry or what I want to prevent others going through or not doing what I'm setting out to do or whatever it is.
But those are the things that are annoying to me. I don't have room in my life for anger or fear, but they're pretty ever-present.
Kim Ades: [00:29:12]
So, very often when we have an emotion that doesn't feel comfortable, we often just want it to go away. Right? Like, we say things like, "I don't have time for fear and anger". And by the way, I say those things all the time, too. Like, I don't have time to be miserable. I just-- right?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:29:27]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:29:27]
Except that those feelings are... Think of them as informative information, and usually fear and anger are designed to protect you from something. And so, my advice, and I don't know if you know much about the way I coach is I encourage people to journal. But in this case, my advice is to ask yourself, what are these two things designed to protect me from.
Right? 'Cause when we have fear, we're more cautious, we're more alert. We're more aware in some cases of our environment and our circumstances, the behavior of others, we're aware of, perhaps maltreatment, et cetera. So you want is to take some time to say, "what exactly is this designed to do for me? What is it supposed to tell me?" and once you understand the benefits of fear and the anger, it's easier to let them go.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:30:28]
Yeah, I know the anger is my fuel a hundred percent. And I know that, like, and I use it that way. And the only thing, the reason I question it is because like, you know, I know it doesn't sound like a happy thing or, you know, sounds like it could be a toxic thing, but I'm aware, I'm very aware that it's there, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:30:49]
Well, and again, It's there. We don't have to wrap our arms around it, but at the same time, we don't have to push it away. And so the question becomes, how do we almost become friends with these emotions? And say, "okay, they exist. They're here to serve me, but I don't really need to give them that much energy. Thank you. You're here. Now I'm going to move on". Right?
So it's this kind of coming to an understanding with these emotions. Whenever we have any of these emotions, they're designed initially to protect us in some way.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:31:20]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:31:21]
And when we realize that we don't actually need all that much protection, we're able to let it go with greater ease.
So when you say "the industry has treated me a certain way", I want to learn more about that. Maybe not on this particular podcast, but that may be a one-on-one conversation. Right? And so the question is, so how does that impacted you? What does that do for you? How does that impact your self-esteem and your self-confidence and the way you interact with the industry now?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:31:53]
Yeah, I mean, it's combination, right? So, female founders only get 2% of all the funding. Period. So I have to work 98% harder. So it doesn't matter how many boxes I check, I still don't qualify or make the grade. Right? And there's... it's not about affirmation. It's about raising about, like, you know, I'm playing this particular game and my fear around that is... So my anger is I want to rub it in and I want to help other women not fucking go through this. Right?
Like, because I have a huge high, very high tolerance for pain and frustration. Very, very high. And I don't know how regular people could possibly fucking do this. To be honest with you. Right? Honest. But the fear is that I'm going to be that woman who almost makes it... You know?
Kim Ades: [00:32:50]
And what if that were to happen? What would that mean about you? What would that say?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:33:03]
Failure... Just failure.
Kim Ades: [00:33:04]
But is that actually true?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:33:07]
It feels true. Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:33:13]
So here's what happens is we attach ourselves, right? The value that we have to some project.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:33:24]
Yeah. I've been here before, in radio. I was terrified to leave my personality behind. And it was actually super easy..
Kim Ades: [00:33:33]
Right.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:33:34]
But... I know. I know that it'll be fine, but-- because it always is, you know, but right now it feels so... present.
Kim Ades: [00:33:43]
Right. And so, now there's a bit of an ethereal question is like, what's the game we play in this lifetime? Is it to be more efficient in our social media efforts? Is that the game we're playing in this lifetime? Or is the game we're playing in this lifetime to kind of maximize our joy, maximize our feelings of a reward? Is it, like, what is it?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:34:13]
Oh, just to be a better human. I think it's very simple. Right.
Kim Ades: [00:34:18]
Right... And so, when we change the rules-- not the rules, but the destination, then failure doesn't factor in. So reaching a certain revenue target doesn't factor in. And it's hard to wrap your arms around it when you're a driven, go getting kickass female entrepreneur.
But what happens is we tie ourselves in knots because we're after a certain number or a certain goal, and we associate ourselves and our value, our worth with that specific goal. And it's all arbitrary. We all just make it up.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:35:02]
I know, but...
Kim Ades: [00:35:03]
Yeah.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:35:04]
I know, but.
Kim Ades: [00:35:05]
But here's the cool part. If we could make that up, what else could we make up? And what could we make up that would feel much more satisfying, much more peaceful, much more joyful, as opposed to inventing things that create so much tension, stress, anger, and fear.
So I know this is like getting out there, but it's a really important question, which boils down to the fact that the way we think affects the way we feel.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:35:37]
Sure.
Kim Ades: [00:35:37]
And at the end of the day, our lives, like, the richness, the value of our lives is dependent on how we feel. When we feel crappy all the time, our lives are diminished.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:35:50]
I don't feel crappy all the time.
Kim Ades: [00:35:52]
I don't think so.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:35:53]
I almost never do, you know, but it's the, you know, it's not-- you're right. And I remember learning that lesson. Thank you to the secret.
Kim Ades: [00:36:04]
But it's not so much-- it's not a-- it's not, you know what? I'll tell you a very, very quick story.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:36:08]
Sure.
Kim Ades: [00:36:09]
Two days ago I was scrolling through Facebook and I saw something that I, like... I did a double-take, which is one of my clients that I had been working with for eight years, suddenly died. She had a brain aneurism. She was on the phone with a client and just suddenly stopped talking and she passed away.
I was so shocked, so devastated because after eight years you... You become friends, like, they're your family.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:36:43]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:36:43]
Right?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:36:44]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:36:45]
And then the question becomes, okay, so she worked so hard to achieve her goals. Right. But my purpose for her was to help her really, truly figure out how to enjoy every single moment of her life so that she can increase the wealth she experienced in her relationships, in her days, in how she used her time.
So I think very often we're, I'll use the term, fucked up...
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:37:14]
Yeah.
Kim Ades: [00:37:15]
...with how we look at the goals we have and what they mean about us. If we reach them and if we don't. So for me, failure is wrapping yourself around an arbitrary goal and making it mean you're a winner or a failure. Doesn't make sense.
Sorry, we went down this road. It's like fun for me right now.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:37:45]
I get it. Yeah. And I'm sorry about your friend.
Kim Ades: [00:37:49]
Yeah.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:37:51]
Yeah, I know. You're right. And I know these things. That's the thing, is like, I'm centered and grounded enough, so, like, it's all here, you know, and that guides me. You know, but I'm human. And so, all the things though, all the things are around, you know?
Kim Ades: [00:38:11]
All the things, yeah.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:38:12]
Yeah. I've got... I got a lot of people that keep me up right.
Kim Ades: [00:38:18]
That's good. That's very good. But again, as I said, like, you have this incredible drive, this incredible determination, this passion oozing out of you and continue to lead with that, and just ask a lot of questions and suddenly that gut instinct will pop in and provide you with clarity. So lean into that.
And when you say "we've tried things that other people have told us and they haven't worked"... Perfect, you know that now.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:38:46]
I know. Why the fuck do we keep bothering with it? Cause it's-- I don't know why.
Kim Ades: [00:38:56]
Well, I hope this conversation was useful.
Thank you so much, Kim. It was great to spend time with you. I really appreciate it.
It was great to spend time with you. Guys, how do people find you, if they're interested in learning more about Lately?
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:39:11]
Thanks. We're lately.ai, pretty easy. And Lately AI is all of our handles @latelyai everywhere, Twitter or Facebook, LinkedIn, Insta, you know.
Kim Ades: [00:39:22]
We're going to look you up.
Kate Bradley Chernis: [00:39:24]
Yeah. We're very friendly. I promise.
Kim Ades: [00:39:26]
I see that. Thank you so much for being on this podcast for sharing your challenge and your story and your energy and your... Beautiful personality and your awesome voice! Thank you for all of that.
For those of you who are listening, if there is a challenge you want to share on the podcast, please reach out to me.
My email address is Kim@frameofmindcoaching.com
If there's a challenge that you want to talk about, but you do not want to share on the podcast, please reach out to me as well.
My email address is Kim@frameofmindcoaching.com
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