[00:00:05] Kim Ades:
Hello, hello. This is Kim Ades, I am the President and Founder of Frame of Mind Coaching™ and you have just joined The Frame of Mind Coaching™ Podcast, where we invite leaders from all over the world to come onto the podcast and get coached live and in person.
Today, it's my pleasure to welcome you... to our guest. Her name is Meghan Booth and she comes from a company called CEO Law, and her role at the company is Senior Business Developer.
[00:00:34] Meghan Booth:
Thank you for having me, Kim. Happy to be here.
[00:00:37] Kim Ades:
I'm so happy for you to be here! So what the heck is CEO Law? What makes it so special?
[00:00:42] Meghan Booth:
[Laughs] So many things make us special. I mean, we are a corporate law firm. We have over 50 lawyers on our team, which actually makes us one of the largest law firms in the country. We're actually also a tech company as well.
One thing that people will definitely notice that's different about us is that our lawyers are senior. They've worked in companies before, which is different than traditional firms. But what they really like of course is that our hourly rate is $250 an hour. And there's some specific reasons why that is, but we can go into those details another time, if you'd like.
[00:01:14] Kim Ades:
Okay. So you have a team of lawyers who are all established senior, who all typically come from some kind of background where they've worked in an organization, they've been part of the team, and so now they're working under the CEO Law brand.
[00:01:32] Meghan Booth:
That is absolutely correct. Yes.
[00:01:34] Kim Ades:
Okay, great. So as the Senior Business Developer, what's your greatest challenge what's going on right now for you?
[00:01:42] Meghan Booth:
I would say our biggest challenge is really just spreading word and getting our message out to people. The legal industry tends to be resistant, to change both on the lawyer side and from companies also. You know, there's a lot of room there to do something different, which is what we're doing, so it's just about, you know, getting 10 minutes of people's time to spread the good word.
[00:02:07] Kim Ades:
Okay. And when you say the law industry is resistant to change, I understand that, but are lawyers your target market or are you targeting companies, CEOs, entrepreneurs, people?
[00:02:22] Meghan Booth:
People, definitely. But we want to work with companies and lawyers within those companies or the owners of those companies. So we're not necessarily working with law firms, we're working with lawyers, you know, in-house lawyers that work with companies or, you know, companies that don't have a general counsel that works within them. Maybe they're just not big enough or developed enough yet but we can help them as well.
[00:02:43] Kim Ades:
So when you work with lawyers in companies, are you trying to recruit them to be on your team? Like, what's the angle?
[00:02:50] Meghan Booth:
No. Oftentimes we help support legal departments.
[00:02:55] Kim Ades:
[00:02:55] Meghan Booth:
So if there's a general counsel for a company, we can provide specialized expertise or kind of just take care of any overflow work they might have in terms of the recruiting. You know, sometimes it does happen. I have definitely had a few sales calls where I end up working with them in the end, which is great. [Laughs]
[00:03:11] Kim Ades:
Right. So that's not your goal.
[00:03:12] Meghan Booth:
No, not the goal.
[00:03:13] Kim Ades:
Okay. So what's the challenge? So what's making this hard? What are you finding out there? What are you encountering? What's your strategy so far?
[00:03:24] Meghan Booth:
Strategy? Well, we're lucky enough that we are able to cast a wide net. So, as you can probably imagine, there's a lot of different types of companies, sizes of companies that we can help. So there's no shortage of where we can reach out to.
I'd say we... Because it's a relationship based industry, most people say that they have a lawyer already. It's definitely something that we encounter a lot. The thing is it doesn't necessarily mean that they're happy with their lawyer.
But when I said it was a change resistant industry, it's because it's relationship based. You know, you want to make sure-- you want to have a good relationship with your lawyer. You want to trust them. You want to know that the work is going to be done. You know, and be as advantageous towards you as it can be.
And that's certainly something that we can do, but as I said, you know, you have to really work to build this type of relationship with people. And I don't like to use the word convince, but you know, it's outlined that we're really doing something different and better.
[00:04:22] Kim Ades:
Okay. So what you're saying is the people you're targeting usually, typically, already are working with a lawyer that they have an established relationship with, and what you're trying to do is have them consider the fact that perhaps there could be a better relationship over here.
[00:04:37] Meghan Booth:
[00:04:38] Kim Ades:
Okay. Got it. And so again, what's your sales strategy? Are you on LinkedIn reaching out to people? Are you-- like, what's the approach for lead gen and just having those conversations?
[00:04:51] Meghan Booth:
Well, we do generally pull lists from, you know, from databases like ZoomInfo.
[00:04:56] Kim Ades:
[00:04:57] Meghan Booth:
We do have a team of BDRs where we will do-- we have cadences, you know, we will cold call and email. And we do LinkedIn outreach as well. We prospect off there--
[00:05:06] Kim Ades:
For people who don't know what BDR stands for, please.
[00:05:09] Meghan Booth:
Yes. Business Development Representative.
[00:05:12] Kim Ades:
[00:05:14] Meghan Booth:
And so we will do, we try to touch-- we try to reach out to people across as many platforms as we can, meaning so that'll be phone call, email, LinkedIn. And we do some marketing as well, like on Facebook and a few other platforms that we're looking at as well.
[00:05:32] Kim Ades:
Okay. And so how's that going for you?
[00:05:37] Meghan Booth:
It's going really well, you know. Since we've started as a company in 2017, you know, we've more than tripled in size, so that's pretty fast. But there are ebbs and flows of course, like with any business.
[00:05:51] Kim Ades:
[00:05:51] Meghan Booth:
And we're really just-- we have lofty goals to keep expanding at a pretty fast paced. And so we are really just trying to determine how we can, you know, keep the flow of leads consistent, whether it's better to, you know, send out general blanket information or to, you know, customize more depending on industry or type of company. Things like that.
[00:06:14] Kim Ades:
Okay. So I'm going to kind of switch gears on you a little bit, because I think what you're doing, obviously to some degree, it's working, right? You've tripled in the past, like, 3-4 years. It's incredible. Amazing. If it's not broken, don't fix it. However, I will throw something else in.
I think that in a relationship based industry, it's very important to consider the power of relationships.
[00:06:39] Meghan Booth:
[00:06:39] Kim Ades:
And therefore, there needs to be a system where you leverage the relationships of others and you leverage the influence of others. And so the question becomes, how do we, how do you build relationships with key influencers in the world? And I don't mean, you know, through social marketing influencing, I mean, like...
You know, there are businesses out there who are your clients already, who love you and really value your services. How do you build partnerships with those people to then help you? I like the concept of leapfrog. Leapfrog from one relationship to the next, right? So are you really maximizing the richness of your existing client base? So that's thought number one.
Thought number two is I have always found that for me personally, because I'm in a service-based industry too, just like law. The way that people get to know us is through, very often, our affiliation with organizations that they already know, like, and trust.
[00:07:44] Meghan Booth:
[00:07:45] Kim Ades:
So when they bring me into a setting, right? For example, I do a lot of speaking for organizations like EO, Vistage, TEC, those kinds of organizations, YPO... And when they bring me in, I'm already vetted, I'm already considered, you know, a person that has credible information to share.
And so the question becomes, which organizations can you partner with in order for them to bring you in as a reliable, valuable resource? And that's not the same as cold calling or emailing or anything else. It's like a specific strategy where you are building relationships with organizations, individuals who've already target your market in a non-competitive manner and can vouch for your services and the caliber of the law that you provide. Does that make sense to you?
[00:08:39] Meghan Booth:
Yep, absolutely. Closed business or current businesses that you already have is probably a better way to go than always to be reaching out cold.
[00:08:46] Kim Ades:
Right. And so the other piece of it is, and I think this is important is actually, you have a certain amount of IP that you bring to the table that not everybody's aware of, right? And so the question becomes, "hey, I'm an entrepreneur. I do work with a lawyer, but I'm about to create something new and who knows, maybe I need a second set of eyes on this or whatever.
But as I am launching a new endeavor, perhaps there are things that I need to consider that I never thought of, that you could potentially help me with". And so imagine if you are putting together content saying, "Hey, are you a startup?" And startups don't typically have established lawyer relationships.
You know, and you're starting in with those relationships at an affordable rate on the ground floor. That's an interesting market for you.
[00:09:36] Meghan Booth:
[00:09:36] Kim Ades:
But if you come to the table with a webinar or podcast content, or, you know, a presentation in startup events for startup events, and you say, you know, you're starting something up here, "here are the five things that you need to really be careful of when you start your business" and I'm sitting in the audience and I'm the startup and I'm taking notes and I'm like, "wow, I have three questions for you". Right?
So now you say to yourself, "so what organizations can I add value to, who are startup organizations, who have incubator kind of environments? Where I can come in, provide a whole bunch of value, give people things to think about so that those are actually takeaways for them, but it opens the door for building relationships with people who don't already have relationships".
[00:10:27] Meghan Booth:
Right. Value out of sort of outreach, podcasts and content that might be more target specific to startups, you were saying.
[00:10:35] Kim Ades:
I'll give you an example. One of our partners is called City MOGULS and the two co-founders of City MOGULS are two young, dynamic, incredible women. And in fact, they went through our coaching program and now they're ready to scale. Amazing. So who's their target market?
Basically City MOGULS is a network of young entrepreneurs who are in startup mode. Do they need access to lawyers? Of course they do. How many people are in their community? Thousands.
So imagine establishing a relationship directly with City MOGULS where City MOGULS says, "yeah, we need a lawyer on board or a team of lawyers that our network can access, that we can vouch for".
[00:11:22] Meghan Booth:
Absolutely. Like, that would be... that's definitely the type of person that I would reach out to on a daily basis. And there's so many, especially these days, popping up in terms of startups.
[00:11:31] Kim Ades:
[00:11:33] Meghan Booth:
That would be ideal, really.
[00:11:35] Kim Ades:
Yeah. So not just reaching out to the startup, but reaching out to the organization that hosts or incubate startups.
[00:11:44] Meghan Booth:
[00:11:45] Kim Ades:
Right? Therefore, you're not contending with the already established relationship with a lawyer.
[00:11:54] Meghan Booth:
That's correct. We do find that there is a bit of a challenge than when larger firms are able to incubate companies like that. Although I still think that there is a lot of value in what we do. In either case it's worthwhile to reach out to these people that have connections to, you know, many companies, as opposed to just one, because there's always a sort of a mutually beneficial relationship for us to have with them.
[00:12:19] Kim Ades:
Right. Now, another question that I have is as a Canadian law organization, is your target only Canadian companies or is it beyond Canada?
[00:12:31] Meghan Booth:
We do most of our work in Canada. We are able to service some US facing work, particularly if it's more based in Canada. So, we do have one or two lawyers that are called in the US, which again, really adds to sort of our value proposition.
[00:12:46] Kim Ades:
[00:12:46] Meghan Booth:
Or if there's US companies that are say, looking to do some work in Canada, we can help them get it set up in that way.
[00:12:52] Kim Ades:
So none of your lawyers are US based?
[00:12:55] Meghan Booth:
We do have two.
[00:12:56] Kim Ades:
Just two. Okay.
[00:12:57] Meghan Booth:
[00:12:57] Kim Ades:
And so to me, part of your kind of expansion per se or your business development efforts need to think about: how do we expand beyond Canada? How do we reach a larger, broader market? And that may be by having more lawyers outside of Canada, perhaps in the US, in the UK, in the United Arab Emirates. Wherever it is, right?
[00:13:20] Meghan Booth:
[00:13:21] Kim Ades:
You might have lawyers out there, or you might have a system that says, "Hey, Canada is a rich market for business, and if you want to do business in Canada, you need some legal assistance". And how do we create a presence in those other places that says "we are the legal team for any company who wants to do business in Canada"?
And so that becomes a different question altogether. And I don't know if you're aware that there are all kinds of grants available for exporting through Canada. There's a grant called the Canada Export Grant, but there are all kinds of systems available to help you do a greater reach outside.
They also introduce you to relevant players that will help you open doors. So these are not, you know, direct reach outs. These are using the systems that are already in place to help you expand, so you're not doing it one by one by one by one.
[00:14:19] Meghan Booth:
Right. Which would be great. It's very labor-intensive. [Laughs]
[00:14:23] Kim Ades:
Well, that's it. And I see that it's labor-intensive and my strategy is always okay, great. What's the best structure in an industry that I can tap into that has logic to it. So when I used to work in the real estate industry, right? There were lots of structures.
One of the structures is all the RE/MAX brokers, easy for me to find them. And in order to find them all at once, I attend a RE/MAX event.. As an example. Right? So what we want to do is think in terms of structures, what structures are available out there for me to tap into so that I don't have to do it one by one, so that I do get endorsed recognition by the organization saying "you should really listen to these guys".
[00:15:08] Meghan Booth:
Absolutely. So, I mean, that'll be something to think about for sure, and probably a more effective way to develop business.
[00:15:14] Kim Ades:
Well, possibly, hopefully, and I'm sure you've thought of some of it, but hopefully I'm pushing you--
[00:15:19] Meghan Booth:
[00:15:20] Kim Ades:
Hopefully I'm pushing you a little more in that direction, in terms of thinking about existing structures that are out there.
So for those of you who are listening and you're thinking about growing your business, and you think about like, B2C or any type of business, B2B, always think about what kinds of structures are out there that you could already tap into. Whether it's networking structures or organizational structures.
Structures are a good thing. It makes it easy to find your target market, and it makes it easy for you to partner with a founding organization as a method of endorsement or a method to really give you the attention and the spotlight that you need. So I hope that was helpful. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast.
For those of you who are listening, if there's anyone out there who has a challenge you want to discuss on the podcast, please reach out to me. I'd be happy to have you on the podcast.
My email address is Kim@frameofmindcoaching.com.
And if you have a challenge that you don't really want to talk about on the podcast, but you do want to discuss, please reach out to me as well.
My email address is Kim@frameofmindcoaching.com.
If you're a regular listener, thank you! Keep listening and please like, share, and do all the things you're supposed to do on a podcast. I thank you for tuning in.
Until we see you again next time.
[00:16:43] Meghan Booth:
Awesome. Thanks, kim. Appreciate the advice.