[00:00:05] Kim Ades:
Hello, hello. This is Kim Ades, you have just joined The Frame of Mind Coaching™ Podcast. I am the President of Frame of Mind Coaching™ and the Co-founder of The Journal That Talks Back™. Today is Fridays with Ferne and we're so happy to have Ferne back. Ferne, welcome back!
[00:00:22] Ferne Kotlyar:
Thank you! Thank you for having me.
[00:00:25] Kim Ades:
So, what are we talking about today?
[00:00:27] Ferne Kotlyar:
All right. So, today we have a case about Corey and Anna. And so, these two girls are best friends, they've been best friends for a while, and Corey's been in a two-year relationship, super healthy relationship, she's really happy. Anna, on the other hand, has been on the hunt for a guy.
Now, the thing with Anna is that Anna has a tendency to like... how do you say... Douchey guys. There are a bit cocky, a bit arrogant, a bit macho, and that has a history of not really working out. And Corey's a bit worried because Anna just started seeing this guy and you know, he's a bit of a... a hick? I don't– maybe that's not a nice term.
[00:01:21] Kim Ades:
Okay, he's not the best guy.
[00:01:23] Ferne Kotlyar:
Well, yeah. He's a bit rough around the edges, he's a bit macho, you know, all the things that she kind of likes. And he does some nice things for her and Anna's kind of head over heels for this guy, she's like totally into it. But Corey sees a lot of red flags. I mean, he's quite old and still living with his parents, he's looking for work, he's a bit rough.
And so, Corey doesn't really know what to do. How does she tell Anna that she doesn't think this guy is right for her, for her friend?
[00:02:10] Kim Ades:
So yeah, what does she do? She doesn't do anything. It's not her job to tell her friend that this guy isn't right for her, unless Anna asks. Right? So, it's very interesting. We often think we know better for people. We often think we can predict the future for people. We often think that it's our place to fix people's problems or to warn them of danger ahead. Right? We often think that. But when we think that, what are we also thinking about our friend?
[00:02:42] Ferne Kotlyar:
That they're not able to see that for themselves.
[00:02:45] Kim Ades:
Exactly. And so, is that view of our friend a good view?
[00:02:52] Ferne Kotlyar:
[00:02:53] Kim Ades:
No. Is that an empowering view?
[00:02:57] Ferne Kotlyar:
No, but if you think that... like, okay, let's say Anna does ask, I mean, they're best friends. I'm sure she'll ask. What do you say? What does Corey say?
[00:03:08] Kim Ades:
Corey says, "I think you deserve the absolute best. Let me tell you what I see in you. Let me tell you all your amazing qualities. I hope he sees them too. Let me tell you what I think you deserve or how you deserve to be treated". That's it.
[00:03:22] Ferne Kotlyar:
So, nothing to do with the actual guy?
[00:03:24] Kim Ades:
No. "And you know what else, Anna? I think you are smart and I think you have strong intuition, and I think you are able to make great decisions and you'll know if this is the right guy for you and if he's treating you as well as you deserve to be treated". And what we're doing is we're empowering Anna to understand she deserves great, instead of saying, "Anna, you have poor judgment, you make bad decisions".
So, when we tell Anna "you're making bad decisions", how does Anna feel about herself? And how does she feel about you?
[00:04:02] Ferne Kotlyar:
Not great either.
[00:04:03] Kim Ades:
And how does she feel about her relationship and sharing her relationship with you?
[00:04:08] Ferne Kotlyar:
She probably won't share as much.
[00:04:11] Kim Ades:
[00:04:12] Ferne Kotlyar:
But maybe she'll think twice about the guy.
[00:04:18] Kim Ades:
Maybe, but do you have to tell her this is a bad guy in order for her to think twice about the guy?
[00:04:24] Ferne Kotlyar:
Maybe not. Is there another way?
[00:04:26] Kim Ades:
Of course there's another way. You start to express the kinds of behaviors" that would be nice for her to experience. It's amazing when a guy is considerate, when a guy is thoughtful, when a guy a good job and is able to come to the table as a partner", et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So you don't have to put the other guy down, you don't have to do any of that. What we have to do is help Anna understand what she deserves.
[00:04:55] Ferne Kotlyar:
By saying it's amazing when a guy has a job, when this guy clearly doesn't have a job.
[00:05:00] Kim Ades:
[00:05:01] Ferne Kotlyar:
[00:05:02] Kim Ades:
What we're really doing is we're saying "Anna, you deserve a partner who comes to the table equally". And so, we don't need to put the other guy down, we need to pump up Anna. That's what we need to do. We need to tell her she's great, she's amazing, she's smart, intelligent, beautiful, and really worthy, deserving of an amazing relationship, one where all these things are taking place. We don't even have to talk about the guy at all. And then we have to say, "Anna, I trust that you'll be able to decide whether or not this guy is good for you".
[00:05:44] Ferne Kotlyar:
But if she asks specifically, like, "what do you think of this guy that you just met?"
[00:05:49] Kim Ades:
"What do I think of this guy? I don't know him very well, but I know that you deserve amazing things and here's the standard".
[00:06:01] Ferne Kotlyar:
I think Anna, in this scenario, someone that cares a lot about what other people think and affection is something she cares about a lot too. So as soon as she gets affection from this guy it's a big deal for her.
[00:06:19] Kim Ades:
[00:06:20] Ferne Kotlyar:
And that little bit of affection turns her around, you know?
[00:06:26] Kim Ades:
[00:06:27] Ferne Kotlyar:
And that doesn't mean that he's a right fit, it just means that he's giving her attention.
[00:06:31] Kim Ades:
And that's fine. And that might be okay for a short period of time. And so, you don't have to like create drama when there's no drama on the table and she could maybe enjoy a little bit of affection, and then realize that this might not be the best, entirely greatest situation for her. Right?
And so, the idea is to help Anna understand what she wants, what she's looking for and not settle. And so, what we need to do– When we settle, why do we settle? We settle because we think, we believe we don't deserve any better. So, the idea is to help Anna understand she deserves the best.
[00:07:10] Ferne Kotlyar:
And if Corey's worried about her getting hurt later on down the road?
[00:07:16] Kim Ades:
Listen, part of life is going through a journey of a variety of emotions. And so, she's worried about her [Anna] getting hurt. What she's also worried about is "Anna doesn't have it in her to recover".
[00:07:28] Ferne Kotlyar:
Yeah, but aren't you worried about your kids getting hurt?
[00:07:32] Kim Ades:
Yes, but I have a belief in my kids that they will go through a variety of experiences and have the strength and resilience to recover. And if they do get hurt, I'll be right by their side to help them bounce back. And so, I'm not there to protect my kids and stop them from– you know, if I was afraid my kids are gonna get hurt, I would never allow them to walk when they were babies, because I wouldn't want them to fall.
What we want to do for our kids is we want to help them become independent, help them have the growth and the resilience to go live in the world and experience all kinds of things and not necessarily prevent themselves from getting hurt, but to build a strength to recover when they do get hurt in a lifetime!
Imagine, a lifetime is like 88 years old round, right? Let's say that's a lifetime. We're going to get hurt, it's going to happen.
[00:08:21] Ferne Kotlyar:
[00:08:22] Kim Ades:
My job isn't to prevent hurt, my job is to build strength to handle it when it happens. Sometimes a kid goes out and plays and falls down and breaks their arm. I'm not going to prevent my kid from playing ever again. I want my kid to go and play, I want my kid to go and have relationships and love and sometimes fail. That's okay. It happens. It's part of life, it's part of growth, it's part of the experience that life has to offer.
It's not about preventing pain, it's about building resilience. And in this case, it's about helping Anna build a sense of self-esteem, a sense of self-confidence that when she looks in the mirror, she's clear about what she deserves and what she wants, and that she's able to see and evaluate that this might not be good enough for her.
[00:09:16] Ferne Kotlyar:
So, if you were to give Corey one last piece of advice, what would it be?
[00:09:20] Kim Ades:
It would be: look at your friend and see the best in your friend and share what you see and be their staunchest fan, their staunchest supporter. Not by telling them they're doing wrong, but by believing in them more than they believe in themselves.
[00:09:40] Ferne Kotlyar:
That's some good advice. Thank you.
[00:09:44] Kim Ades:
I think it's great advice!
[00:09:45] Ferne Kotlyar:
[00:09:45] Kim Ades:
That's what we do as coaches. Very often when we work with a client and the client has self-doubt, what we do is we stand behind the client and have belief in them in a way that they're unable to have for themselves.
[00:09:59] Ferne Kotlyar:
So important. Everybody needs a personal cheerleader.
[00:10:02] Kim Ades:
Exactly. All right. Good question, good case, good discussion. Hope that those of you who are listening took something away from this. Love to hear from you, love to get your feedback. If you have a case that you want us to discuss on the podcast, please reach out. Ferne, how do they find you?
[00:10:21] Ferne Kotlyar:
Please email me. So, my email is firstname.lastname@example.org.
[00:10:32] Kim Ades:
And if you have a coaching problem that you want to discuss with me, reach out to me. It's email@example.com. In the meantime, please like, please share, please tell your friends about our podcast and continue to be part of our world and our family. We love having you listen. We will see you next time. Have a great week.
[00:10:54] Ferne Kotlyar: