Nancy Myers

Encapsulation And The Five Coaching Steps: With Nancy Myers

It’s not uncommon to be confused as to why people can’t see us for our intelligence or talent. Instead they'd rather question our experience and abilities. But what really makes the difference is what we do in those situations.

On this brand new episode of The Frame of Mind Coaching™ Podcast we have an amazing guest. Her name is Nancy Myers, she is the COO at RapStar Energy Drink, and recently changed gears in her career to the energy drink industry.

Today Nancy comes to me with a very frustrating issue: while being on the job, people around her, including her own team, tend to underestimate her. And she doesn’t know how to approach these people and make them understand how incredible she is at her job.

Why? As you follow these steps, encapsulation is the bow on the coaching gift - by encapsulating what the other person is communicating, you are describing the problem and verifying if what you got from the conversation is exactly what they meant to say and express. That way people can know that you understand them and establish trust.

Do you have a challenge you’d like to discuss? Reach out! If there's any issue you want to talk about here on the podcast or privately, please send me an email:

Episode Transcript

[00:00:05] Kim Ades:
Hello, hello. This is Kim Ades, I am the President and Founder of Frame of Mind Coaching™ and you have just joined The Frame of Mind Coaching™ Podcast, where we invite leaders from all over the world to come onto the podcast and get coached live and in person.
Today I'm meeting someone new. It's a first-time visit with my guest. Her name is Nancy Myers. Nancy, welcome.

[00:00:28] Nancy Myers:
Thank you. Glad to be here.

[00:00:30] Kim Ades:
So Nancy and I were talking right before the show and she shared with me that she just took on a new role with a new company and it's an energy drink called Rapstar, RAP like, you know, rap artists. So that's super cool. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:00:50] Nancy Myers:
It's a new startup here in Atlanta and basically they've been spending... oh, I guess the last three years actually getting ready to launch it. Basically doing a lot of market research, talking with a lot of different hip hop/rap artists to see who's going to collaborate and partner with them. They've done well that way. I can't really say, but they've done well.

So, basically they have the marketing side of everything down. It was more around the operational, basically knowing exactly what investors to-- who to partner with, and that's something that I've actually learned a lot of in the last three years. So, I will be the COO taking care of the operations optimizing the company, and basically building the performance model and a complete business plan for them.

[00:01:43] Kim Ades:
Amazing. Congratulations! I'm excited to hear how that goes down. And right now you're in Atlanta, you mentioned to me before. You came from somewhere else. So tell us a little bit about your journey and your recent experience.

[00:01:59] Nancy Myers:
Yes. So, I'll start with my background is programming and designing large mechanical control systems, energy management, carbon management, district energy. I'm a geek actually.

[00:02:13] Kim Ades:

[00:02:14] Nancy Myers:
And I just stumbled upon a little island called St. Vincent, the Grenadines.

[00:02:20] Kim Ades:
I know it well.

[00:02:22] Nancy Myers:
Yes well, it's a beautiful, beautiful place. The people are amazing. I get down there to basically form a new farming corporation, to basically get the farmers to be able to export their products globally. And we had focused on one specific product and partnered with a vitamin company, and then the volcano erupted.

[00:02:51] Kim Ades:
Oh no.

[00:02:52] Nancy Myers:
So I moved down there in October, gave up my career to jump out this after doing three years of a lot of work in building. And we were just about to launch the very first online training program in the Caribbean for global agricultural practice and the volcano erupted that day.

[00:03:18] Kim Ades:
Wow. So you were evacuated and that was that?

[00:03:22] Nancy Myers:
I was evacuated in April, Canada was still locked down. I, unfortunately because of allergies, can not get the vaccination.

[00:03:29] Kim Ades:
Oh wow.

[00:03:30] Nancy Myers:
So getting into Canada was very difficult. And to be truthful, I just wasn't ready to be locked down. [Laughs]

[00:03:37] Kim Ades:

[00:03:38] Nancy Myers:
You know, that was quite a little ordeal to go through. So I've been bouncing around the US basically closing down Kwasans, which was an emotional journey in itself after the years of building it. And a friend of mine in Atlanta said "you know what? Come here. I'm traveling all the time. Just regroup, see what happens". And I just met this gentlemen by chance to dinner one night.

We're talking, you know, where we came from, he goes "you're not from here" and I'm like "no, Canadian". And next thing you know, he's like "we've been waiting for you".

[00:04:20] Kim Ades:

[00:04:21] Nancy Myers:
Yeah. I was like "oh, okay". [Laughs]

[00:04:25] Kim Ades:
So you just bumped into someone and that someone happened to be related to the energy drink. What is it called? Rapstar Energy Drink.

[00:04:35] Nancy Myers:
Yeah. He was the CEO of it.

[00:04:37] Kim Ades:
Wow. Amazing. Talk about serendipity. Incredible.

[00:04:42] Nancy Myers:
It's kind of how I ended up in St. Vincent, So everything seems to happen that way for me. [Laughs]

[00:04:46] Kim Ades:
Yeah. There you go. So, tell us right now, what is your greatest challenge? What do you want to talk about on today's episode?

[00:04:53] Nancy Myers:
You know, I guess for me, I've always kinda been behind the scenes and even when I formed the company Kwasans, I had never seen before. I just started building it, researching it, studying every component of it. I guess actually learning more than what most CEOs actually learn. But I'm an analytical person, so I just kept digging and digging, and basically took all of my free time. And I'm really big on risk analysis. The only big risk I couldn't handle was the volcano, and there's not much you can do about that.

[00:05:34] Kim Ades:
Are you big on risk analysis or risk prevention?

[00:05:39] Nancy Myers:
All of the above. All of the above. I worked in healthcare for 10 years, taking care of 22 healthcare facilities' mechanical systems. So when you have doctors that, you know, the air shuts off, the cooling shuts off, the things people don't think about behind the world of healthcare... that was the most challenging job I've ever had.

[00:06:03] Kim Ades:
Would you call yourself risk averse?

[00:06:05] Nancy Myers:

[00:06:06] Kim Ades:
Okay. All right. Yeah. So risk averse, but there's a volcano, so you can't manage that. Nothing you can do. All right. So now you're taking on a new role. You're used to being behind the scenes. So where are you now? What's the challenge?

[00:06:24] Nancy Myers:
Well, it's called Rapstar Energy Drink with a lot of celebrities. Basically it's going to be a lot of in front of the scenes. I'm actually--

[00:06:39] Kim Ades:
What's your fear?

[00:06:43] Nancy Myers:
My fear would be basically coming off too much as a geek, actually.

[00:06:51] Kim Ades:
And what would be wrong with that?

[00:06:55] Nancy Myers:
Intimidation. I find that a lot of people are intimidated by my intelligence. I tend to get on a roll sometimes and some people are like "wow, she's really... wow". And some people are intimidated by that. And so, some of these different artists in that, that I'm going to be working with, you know, won't have that experience with--

[00:07:28] Kim Ades:
So, are you saying that your intelligence can turn some people off?

[00:07:33] Nancy Myers:

[00:07:34] Kim Ades:
Okay. And have you had the experience in the past where your intelligence has turned some people off?

[00:07:41] Nancy Myers:
Yes, actually quite a bit.

[00:07:42] Kim Ades:
Can you describe one of those times? One or two of those times?

[00:07:47] Nancy Myers:
As far as I know, especially when I started back in the day, I was the only female in my industry, so I have gone into numerous meetings. I remember one meeting in particular. It was a very high profile project: system integration, smart building-- the smartest building that had ever been built, actually.

And when I walked in, I didn't know exactly where I was going. I was just hired for sales. So I'm dressed up, which I didn't really do. And when I walked in, they said to me "sorry, women don't usually attend this meeting".

[00:08:26] Kim Ades:
How many years ago was this?

[00:08:29] Nancy Myers:
Uh... Four? [Laughs]

[00:08:31] Kim Ades:

[00:08:32] Nancy Myers:
Oh, I get it all the time.

[00:08:33] Kim Ades:
And where were you in the world?

[00:08:35] Nancy Myers:

[00:08:37] Kim Ades:
In Vancouver. In Canada they said "women don't attend this meeting"?

[00:08:41] Nancy Myers:

[00:08:43] Kim Ades:
Wow. Okay. And then what did you do?

[00:08:46] Nancy Myers:
I just looked at him, I said "well I guess today's your lucky day". [Laughs]

[00:08:50] Kim Ades:
Good answer!

[00:08:51] Nancy Myers:
I'm used to it. So I said "you know what? I'm just here to observe. I'm here with this company. They've just asked me to look in on the project to see how it's going". And as I sat there and listened to it, I was like "this is the most disorganized construction project I've ever been on in my whole career. Wow. This is really bad. And I don't think I want to be part of it".

And so, at the end of it, I said "well, do you mind if I ask a couple of questions?" And so I started asking, and sometimes I do it on purpose, I really do. When you kind of, you know... You set yourself up. So I asked a lot of technical questions and they all kind of went... And I just went--

[00:09:34] Kim Ades:
You mean their jaw was on the floor.

[00:09:36] Nancy Myers:
On the floor, on the floor. And I said "I'm sorry, I should have probably... you didn't really ask me who I was and what I do", so when I give them my background, they just went "oh". But one gentlemen went "I've heard of you". And I went "oh! Okay. Well, so if you could get me the answers to these questions, that would be great".

And then afterwards, the same gentleman that came up to me and said "women don't..." he was the project manager for this construction company. He said to me, he goes "I need your help".

[00:10:11] Kim Ades:
So, I'm not seeing a problem. You walk in, people underestimate you, you blow them away and then they turn their heads and then they take-- like, take a second look... a double look... Double-take! That's the word I'm looking for. Okay.

[00:10:24] Nancy Myers:
Some do. Some will... Really start challenging.

[00:10:29] Kim Ades:

[00:10:30] Nancy Myers:
Like, really start questioning my experience or my intelligence. Like, they'll just try their damnedest to make me look bad.

[00:10:42] Kim Ades:

[00:10:43] Nancy Myers:
Usually when that happens I just kind of go, I just sit back and...

[00:10:47] Kim Ades:
Yeah. So I mean, it sounds like you're handling yourself incredibly well. It sounds like you handle yourself with a little bit of humor, a little bit of grace-- lots of grace, and quite a bit of intelligence, and you're able to not get rattled when there's a statement so insidious as "women don't usually attend these meetings", which I'm shocked to hear in this day and age in Canada. So I'm just blown away by that.

So you're handling yourself well. What do you anticipate will be a challenge in this new roll? Like, you're going to be dealing with all kinds of people. Where do you feel in advance the rub might be?

[00:11:32] Nancy Myers:
Is when I tend to... some people will say, if they're not... Some people will say "are you trying to make me look bad?" and I just kind of go off, like I said, I just kind of get on a roll when I start talking, you know? Well, so I'm an instructor as well, so because of that sometimes I can, you know, I come off as an instructor, a teacher.

[00:12:02] Kim Ades:
Okay. So it sounds like what's happening, and I'm trying to read between the lines a little bit, is that when somebody says "are you trying to make me look bad?" You're challenging them in a way. And you're perhaps unconsciously, kind of pinning them up against, where they have no place to go. Is that accurate?

[00:12:22] Nancy Myers:
Yeah, I think they feel like that and--

[00:12:24] Kim Ades:
They feel like that. Yeah. You're not doing it on purpose, and perhaps part of it is for you to kind of create a level of credibility for yourself when people don't know you.

[00:12:37] Nancy Myers:
That's exactly what it is.

[00:12:38] Kim Ades:
Okay, I understand.

[00:12:41] Nancy Myers:
That is exactly what it is. It's a matter of proving myself.

[00:12:47] Kim Ades:
Okay. So let me share with you some tips that might help you. Okay? And really, it sounds like what would benefit you would be to acquire a few skills related to coaching, right? So you don't want to be in a position of instructor or educator, because what happens on the other side is a person ends up getting defensive and that doesn't necessarily work in your favor.

So sure, you come off as intelligent, but you don't come off as necessarily a team player, right? You're not on their team. And so the question becomes, how do you become on their team? And so the first thing that I would recommend is that when you're-- I mean, I love the fact that you're asking questions and I call that getting the story. Right? I just ask you a bunch of questions and I'm getting the story from you.

"What exactly is going on? What's taking place? Give me an example. Give me a little history. When did it happen in the past?" You get the sense, I'm doing it right now with you, right?

[00:13:51] Nancy Myers:

[00:13:51] Kim Ades:
The second piece of it is I'm trying to dig underneath that story. And what I mean by that is I'm trying to understand what is the implication of this event or this situation for you. And I understood the implication, right? The implication is like, you're trying to make an impact and you come in and people don't understand who you are and what you're about, and when you try to demonstrate that, they're taking it back or they're not warming up to you necessarily the way you want them to. Right?

[00:14:23] Nancy Myers:

[00:14:23] Kim Ades:
And then the next part, what I just did is-- I did something called encapsulating, which is I just described the problem and when you say "yes, that's exactly it", I know that I finally understood what you're trying to share with me, and I'm in a position of compassion. I understand where you're coming from, I understand what you're doing. And the minute that you feel that I understand you, you also feel that I'm on your team. Does that make sense?

[00:14:52] Nancy Myers:

[00:14:53] Kim Ades:
That's the piece that I think you're missing.

[00:14:57] Nancy Myers:
Yes. Well, I've developed it for my industry.

[00:15:02] Kim Ades:

[00:15:03] Nancy Myers:
I would normally be dealing with like, building operators, all these different ones, and I've always, from day one when I started in training, I started there. So I knew what it was like for them. I was able to put myself in their shoes and for my whole career, I always-- my father taught me that right from the get go with my first job interview, where I walked in and went "we don't hire women".

And he went "okay, you need to understand their fears". So my father taught me this so many years ago, and so I always would sit down and try to identify with what are their fears. But I came from that industry, so it was easier for me to identify it.

[00:15:47] Kim Ades:

[00:15:47] Nancy Myers:
This whole new industry that I'm like, doing as much research as I can on rap stars and, you know, like, I know their music and all that, but it's more around who are they as a person, because the perception that they put out with their music isn't necessarily them.

[00:16:05] Kim Ades:
Right. And really what you're trying to do is understand the person. And just because they're in an industry, doesn't mean that all their personalities are identical. Right?

[00:16:17] Nancy Myers:

[00:16:17] Kim Ades:
And so, really what you're trying to do is understand the individual where they're coming from, how they see the world, and when they feel that they have a struggle, you want to try to really get at the root of the struggle.

And we're asking questions, we're understanding, but the critical component in having an effective conversation is not demonstrating that I'm intelligent. It's demonstrating that. I understand you.

[00:16:44] Nancy Myers:

[00:16:45] Kim Ades:
That I'm able to verbalize the emotional state you're in and the experience you're having. And when you feel that I'm able to verbalize that now you're going "okay, she gets me. Now I'm ready to hear what she has to say". Until I do that, I'm just somebody that doesn't matter, right? I'm just somebody who, you know, is asking questions or trying to look smart or whatever, right? But it's that critical piece that makes the difference in your ability to connect with those people.

And that's what I'm really hearing from you is that I really want to connect. I want to make an impact. I want to make a difference. I want to bring my expertise to the table. But in order for me to do that, I need to connect. Because I need to establish trust.

[00:17:34] Nancy Myers:

[00:17:35] Kim Ades:
And in order to establish trust, I must demonstrate that I understand the complexity of their point of view.

[00:17:44] Nancy Myers:

[00:17:45] Kim Ades:
And that has nothing to do with demonstrating how smart I am. It has to do with really taking the time to, I call itencapsule, what it is that they are experiencing. Once you're there, then you can make any recommendations you want. If you try to make recommendations ahead of time, before encapsulation period... forget it.

[00:18:09] Nancy Myers:

[00:18:11] Kim Ades:
Right? And that's kinda like the thing that brings everything together.

[00:18:17] Nancy Myers:
That makes-- yeah. It is. As I've gone out here in Atlanta and gone to different, you know, meetings and met this person and that person, I'm just like "wow, okay". I'm still in awe when I look at the diamond necklace around their neck and I'm like "do you have that insured?"

[00:18:40] Kim Ades:

[00:18:41] Nancy Myers:
You know? And still, no matter where I've lived and I've traveled the world, I come from a little fishing village in Nova Scotia. Right?

[00:18:49] Kim Ades:
Well, you're in a different land. You look different, you sound different, you see the world differently and your job is simply simply to demonstrate that you have some kind of understanding of what they are trying to share with you.

And so the language could be "so what you're saying is..." fill in the blank, right? And when they say "yes, that's exactly what I'm saying!" Now you can move on. Now the relationship has been established. Until then don't try to move forward.

[00:19:22] Nancy Myers:
Yeah. So what happens if they don't share?

[00:19:27] Kim Ades:
Then you haven't asked enough questions.

[00:19:29] Nancy Myers:
Okay. Just keep at it until...

[00:19:33] Kim Ades:
Be interested in them, get their story. And a lot of times people give you a very, very small component of their story. Your job is to ask for more details. For more. So people will say, for example, you're-- I'll give you an example, okay? Right here.

So you went into the Caribbean, there was a volcano, you were evacuated. You didn't want to go to Canada and it was hard for you to go back home anyways, because of COVID, so you decided to travel around. You're living in somebody, right? So I might say, and we won't get into this right now, but you didn't really talk about this person or this home, you just said "he travels a lot, so he said 'why don't you stay here?'"

I'd be curious about that story and say "who is this man? Are you in a relationship with him? How did you meet him? What is the arrangement here?" But I'm just plain old curious, right? Now, it's not the topic of this conversation, but you didn't mention it, you offered up a very small part of this relationship, but you left a lot out in the story.

[00:20:41] Nancy Myers:
Yeah. [Laughs]

[00:20:42] Kim Ades:
So I'd be curious to go to those places that you're leaving out.

[00:20:46] Nancy Myers:
Okay, okay.

[00:20:47] Kim Ades:
The same applies to you.

[00:20:49] Nancy Myers:

[00:20:50] Kim Ades:
So what I wanted to share with you is we train leaders how to coach, and I will tell you with absolute certainty is that leaders who learn how to coach experience a much, much higher level of satisfaction with the performance of their team. It's a direct relationship. And so we teach leaders how to coach so that their results are more significant. They're reaching their goals, they're achieving more, their performance levels are higher.

And so one of the things I do is I create information and content about how to coach people. So I gave you-- you know, there's a five step process that I use. I think I gave you four of the five steps or maybe just three, but if you're interested, there's a paper that I wrote all about those five steps.

And for those of you who are listening, if you're interested, you can look for those five steps too, and I'll give you the URL. If you just go to our website, you'll find them.

So I encourage you to look those up. You'll read them and you'll say "okay, I understand exactly which point she was trying to discuss". And the word for you is encapsulation. It's so important, and it's the thing that so many people miss in their conversations.

[00:22:13] Nancy Myers:
I've learned different skills over the years, not really knowing exactly what they were. And as I said, I've learned to read the room and that, but this is a different room, so...

[00:22:29] Kim Ades:
This is a different room. And sometimes we learn things and we forget, and sometimes we learn things, but the moment we're conscious of what it is that we're supposed to do, that's a different game, right? Once we're going "oh, this is the part that I have naturally tried to do, but now that I'm conscious of it, I need to make sure it's part of the conversation", so it becomes a little more effective for you.

[00:22:54] Nancy Myers:
That is good. [Laughs]

[00:22:55] Kim Ades:
Nancy, thank you so much for being on the podcast, for sharing your story. We're really excited to hear more about your Rapstar Energy Drink. It's funny how you went from the energy industry to the energy drink industry. That's kind of funny.

[00:23:12] Nancy Myers:
I hadn't thought about that, yeah!

[00:23:15] Kim Ades:
We're gonna follow your story and see what happens when that drink comes to the public. But thank you so much.

[00:23:24] Nancy Myers:
Thank you. This was good. I appreciate it.

[00:23:27] Kim Ades:
For those of you who are listening, I hope you took something away from this conversation. The concept of encapsulation is super important when you're having conversations with people where you're really trying to demonstrate that you understand them, and you're trying to establish trust. Without encapsulation there's a piece missing, there's a connectivity that's absent from the conversation.

So I encourage you to take a moment and try to encapsulate where somebody else is saying where they're coming from, and really understand the emotional state that they have when they're describing their problem, their struggle, their challenge.

For those of you who are listening, if you have a challenge that you want to share on the podcast, please reach out to me.

My email address is

If you have a challenge that you want to talk about, but maybe not so much on the podcast, please reach out to me as well.

My email address is

Until we see you next time, thank you. Have a great day.

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