Michelle Seiler Tucker

Why People Don’t Do What You Want: With Michelle Seiler Tucker

Have you noticed that some of your employees aren’t doing what you tell them to do? What do you think is the reason behind this? The answer is surprisingly simple. Our guest on today’s episode is Michelle Seiler Tucker. Michelle is the CEO of Seiler Tucker, a mergers and acquisitions firm, and the author of Exit Rich. Michelle sometimes feels like her employees aren’t doing exactly what they’re supposed to be doing. As an executive coach, I see this a lot. Leaders tend to make certain assumptions about their team that aren’t always accurate. What could be the solution to this? Listen to this episode to find out.

How to deal with difficult employees

I recently spoke with the CEO of a mergers and acquisition firm about what it meant to work with difficult employees. In her words, her clients’ greatest challenges were always the same: the people they worked with weren’t serving their needs. What did she mean by that, I wondered?

One client put it this way: “We just can’t deal with our employees anymore. People sign up and jump ship a week later because they think the grass is greener on the other side… or they’ll take two weeks off during a crucial part of the year, and then we’re not able to wrap up work until they come back.” 

It’s funny — this was one reason I started coaching in the first place. There’s often a disconnect that happens between executives and employees, and sometimes it takes a little extra work to fill the understanding gap between them.

So today we’re going to close that gap by asking the all-important question: why aren’t employees doing what you want them to be doing?

Interestingly enough (and trust me, because I’ve seen this a thousand times), the disconnect happening between you and your employees has a lot more to do with your own thinking than their actions. That’s a good thing, because it means you can control the factors needed to work more efficiently with your colleagues. Here’s five ways to do that:

1. Set your story aside

Many executives aren’t really equipped to coach their team effectively. They’ll start by making a whole bunch of assumptions, and they’ll work off of those assumptions — imagine their surprise when their team members aren’t working with the same assumptions. 

In order to start to understand your employees, you’ll need to put your own story aside and get curious about the people who work for you. Take the time to get to know your employees’ unique agendas and goals. Slow down a little bit up front, and it’ll start to pay off down the road.  

2. Learn your employees’ story 

After you’ve put your story aside, pick up a new one: the story your employees are telling. What is their day to day life like, both personally and professionally? Ask them what’s going on. Are they constantly tired? Are they checked out and disengaged? Are they motivated, but only when a certain type of work lands on their desk? Start gathering everything you can, and take notes on every detail, because it’ll come in handy for our next step. 

3. Dig beneath their story 

Now that you’ve got your employees’ stories under your belt, it’s time to go beneath them. For instance, if someone says, “You know, I’m just always feeling tired,” you need to move past that and dig deeper. Your employee is giving you part of a story, but a great leader will work beyond that and ask: “What’s going on that keeps you tired?”

Have fun with the details. Did they go out on the town last night? What kept them up late? Did they have a great time? And so on. The problem with a lot of leaders is that they come off as uncaring or uninterested in their employees’ lives. That, in turn, opens the door for willful miscommunication — an employee who doesn’t feel seen won’t go the extra mile to explain their actions to you when they do something that isn’t in line with your goals.

dealing with difficult employees infographic

4. Understand their thinking patterns

Once you’ve got a handle on why your employees are doing things a certain way, you can also reverse-engineer that information to diagnose what’s stopping them from completing what needs to get done. If they’re constantly messing up a project, it might be because they don’t think they are skilled enough to do it correctly. Or it might be that they think they’re far more focused when they work from home. It might even be that they don’t think they’re allowed to delegate some of their tasks to others so they have more “brain space” to focus on what needs completing. 

The point is, knowing the thinking behind the action will help you tremendously when it comes to getting the outcome you’re looking for. 

5. Develop your coaching skills 

In my line of work, I often ask leaders to rate their comfortability with coaching, and then rate their satisfaction with their employees. And do you know what I’ve found? It’s nearly always a straight line. A perfect correlation. If the leader is a great coach, they’re usually pretty satisfied with their employees. If they’re new to the concept of coaching, they often struggle with their colleagues. 

Developing coaching skills is probably one of the most impactful ways to improve your employer-employee relationship. That’s why we teach those skills: because, time and again, we’ve found that helping leaders learn to coach is the number one way to fast-track their business goals. 

Dealing with difficult employees doesn’t have to be difficult 

Here’s what I will say: while it’s not a simple climb to developing a better relationship with your employees, it’s absolutely worth the effort. Take the plunge to understand the people you work with, and you might just be surprised by what you find.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:05] Kim Ades:

Hello, hello. My name is Kim Ades, I am the President and Founder of Frame of Mind Coaching™ and the Co-founder of The Journal That Talks Back™. For those of you who have never heard of The Journal That Talks Back™, it's a new coaching service that we are offering to young professionals. Please check it out. We're super excited about it. thejournalthattalksback.com come and look at the website. It's a beautiful thing. 

Today I am super excited to introduce to you our guest. Her name is Michelle Seiler Tucker. Did I get it right, Michelle? 

[00:00:41] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

You did. 

[00:00:42] Kim Ades:

And she is the CEO of a company called Seiler Tucker, but more interestingly, or just as interestingly, she is the author of a book called Exit Rich. Michelle, welcome. 

[00:00:54] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

[00:00:56] Kim Ades:

So, tell us a little bit about you. You live in New Orleans. 

[00:00:59] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

I do live in... we say New Orleans [laughs] but yeah, I do live in New Orleans. I'm from Long beach, California. Moved here about 18 years ago. 

[00:01:10] Kim Ades:

Okay. And tell us a little bit about what is Seiler Tucker, and then you'll tell us about your book.

[00:01:16] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Sure. So, Seiler Tucker Incorporated is a mergers and acquisitions firm, but we don't just specialize in selling companies. We specialize in buying, selling, fixing, and growing businesses. I partner with business owners, investing my capital, my resources, core competencies, to put my partners on a road to sell programs, so we can exit their business in three to five years or their desired sales price. 

I also buy businesses and flipped them, we sell businesses, we merge businesses. So, we're really a full shop entrepreneurship M&A firm, which most M&A firms just sell companies. 

[00:01:56] Kim Ades:

And what kinds of companies are you looking for? What kind of companies do you grow, fix, flip? Tell us. Is there a niche you're in? Tell us a little bit about that.

[00:02:05] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

So, as far as selling, I've been in this industry a little over 20 years, personally I've sold over 500 transactions, 500 businesses. My firm has done much more than that altogether. And really we're industry agnostic, so we pretty much sell businesses in every vertical you can imagine. Right now we're selling an agriculture business, mining. I mean, you name it, we pretty much have been in it. 

And my sweet spot are businesses $10 million and up in purchase price. However, we do have a team that will sell businesses that are smaller than that. As far as who do I partner with? Well, that's tricky because it really depends, you know? I've got to make sure it's a niche business, I'm never going to partner in a restaurant industry. I've got to make sure it's something niche. I've got to make sure that whoever I'm partnering with is coachable. [Laughs] 

[00:03:04] Kim Ades:


[00:03:04] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

And I've got to make sure they will grow themselves because you will never grow a business beyond what you can grow the owner.

[00:03:10] Kim Ades:

I couldn't agree more! 

[00:03:13] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

And I gotta be managing member. I don't know if you've ever watched The Profit on CNBC with Marcus Limonus, but he always says "I'm in charge!" Same with me. I have to be a managing member. As far as buying and flipping, it's really when I see a good opportunity where I can leverage the assets and know that I can turn them on and flip it pretty quickly and identify... 

You know, I look at all businesses based upon a six piece that I talk about in my book, Exit Rich, so I look at the scene of what are their strongest piece or their weakest piece, how soon can I turn that business around and get it back on the market. And I already explained about selling. 

As far as acquisitions go, we really help buyers. Gosh, I've been in this industry for over 20 years, I can't even begin to tell you how many buyers we help leave corporate America and buy a business, afford a much better quality of life, financial freedom, and the opportunity to be their own boss. 

[00:04:07] Kim Ades:

And do you work with primarily product based companies? Or service based companies as well? 

[00:04:13] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:04:13] Kim Ades:

Both, okay.

[00:04:14] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

So, we have product based companies, we have service based companies, like I said, pretty much industry agnostic. We're more EBITDA specific than we are industry agnostic, because most of our buyers have a target of at least a million dollars in EBITDA, even as earnings before interest taxes, depreciation, amortization.

[00:04:34] Kim Ades:

And, I'm just kind of curious about what you find in terms of companies that need a turnaround. Is it a common thing that they need help with? Or is it unique to every single business? 

[00:04:49] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

So, again, we evaluate the business on a six P's, which is people, product, processes, proprietary, patrons, and profits. So, usually when companies need turnaround, they think they need a turnround because they're not making any money. Well, that's not the issue. Lack of profits is never the problem. 

This is symptom of [laughs] symptom of not having the right people in place, symptom of being in a dying industry instead of a thriving industry and not innovating the market, symptom of not having your processes button up where you can want efficiently, and a symptom of having customer concentration versus customer diversification.

So when I say it's the lack of profits, we really dig in to find out what the real issues are. We also have a road to sell program because, like Steve Forbes says, 80% of businesses will never sell. So that means business owners only have a 20% chance of success when I go to sell their business. 

So we really dig in to find out what the biggest issues are. Usually, Kim, the biggest issues are the owner. I always say fish stinks from the head [chuckles] and the owner is typically the bottleneck. They're working in their business, not on their business, and they're hiring people that maybe they feel like don't have the same intellect that they do, you know, that they can control instead of hiring people smarter than them.

[00:06:05] Kim Ades:

Got it. Yeah, of course. I see that often. Amazing. Very, very interesting. Okay. So, you are in The Frame of Mind Coaching Podcast, what is your greatest challenge today? 

[00:06:16] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

I would say my greatest challenge and all of my client's greatest challenge: our employees. 

[00:06:23] Kim Ades:

Okay, tell me about that challenge. 

[00:06:26] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

So, the biggest challenge for us, and especially for the companies I own and for my clients, I was on the phone last night till 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock last night, was a client that we're selling for $55 million. And I said, "Michelle, oh my gosh, we just can't deal with these employees anymore". Employees has always been a challenge, but even more difficult now because the pandemic and because, you know, everybody thinks that the grass is green on the other side, and they're ready to jump ship for a dollar more an hour, you know? [Chuckles] 

And she says everybody has come to her for raises after raises, after raises and they don't listen and they don't follow a policy. One of our biggest issues was, we're in due diligence right now, about to close on the sell of the business, and they can't give us in the year of financials because they all decided to take everybody in that department, they said they're taking two weeks off, like it or not, and they're all leaving at the same time. 

Even though the policy is written that you get one week, it has to be approved in advance, and you have to have a replacement in your department, so, you can't all take off at the same time. Well, they all took off at the same time, left her in a bind. And the partners were not able to go anywhere for their holiday. And most importantly, they're not able to wrap up the end of the year until people start coming back. 

But you know, the biggest issue is, look, I have clients that come into me all the time, even my CPA says, "Michelle, you know, we have a non-profit". We'll hire somebody, they don't show up the next day. My husband and I had medical clinics. We'll hire somebody, they go to lunch, they don't come back. [Chuckles] 

[00:08:08] Kim Ades:

Yeah. I've heard this over and over and over again. In fact, this is why we launched The Journal That Talks Back, this specific reason, because we have found that there is a huge disconnect between employers and their employees, and they don't really know what's going on in the minds of their employees. And so, they are shocked and surprised when... exactly that story! 

There was a lunch meeting. Exactly that, someone gets up, goes to the bathroom, never returns. [Chuckles] 

[00:08:39] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:08:39] Kim Ades:

And things like that are happening and it's not uncommon. And so, what I feel is very, very important is to really take the time to bridge that gap. So for us, you know, and I'm not here to plug, but I'm here to plug, right? 

[00:08:56] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Well, how sells myself, my customer's problems and we can sell their business quicker. [Laughs] 

[00:09:02] Kim Ades:

Well, this is the thing! So, let me back up for a minute, right? 

[00:09:04] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:09:04] Kim Ades:

We coach executives, so let me help you understand why people don't do what they're supposed to do. Right?

[00:09:13] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:09:13] Kim Ades:

Which is really what you're saying. Why aren't these employees doing what's in the policy? Why aren't they doing what they're supposed to be doing? And there's one reason. It's because their thinking is not aligned with that policy, is not aligned with that goal, is not aligned with the company, is not aligned with the owner.

[00:09:31] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:09:32] Kim Ades:

And the problem is the owner has no clue what the thinking is of their staff. Wearing a blindfold. And so, what is the owner typically doing? They're looking at what the staff is doing. Well, they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, so, the owner goes nuts. And what I encourage owners to do is stop for a minute and say, forget about what they're doing. Try to understand what they're thinking and how their thinking leads them to the actions that they are making. Does that it makes sense? 

[00:10:11] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

That makes perfect sense. So, how do they do that? Because a lot of times you'll ask employees and I don't tell you the truth. 

[00:10:16] Kim Ades:

Of course they don't tell you the truth! And so, you have... What was it? Your six piece? 

[00:10:24] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:10:25] Kim Ades:

Right? Well, we have a five step process that we use for coaching individuals. And what I find is that most leaders are not equipped to coach their team. And so, what they do is they make a whole bunch of assumptions and then they work off of those assumptions, and then they're shocked when their team members aren't working with the same assumptions. 

And so, how do we find out what people are thinking? We need to learn to ask them, but in a way that allows us to step one, put our own stories aside, right? So, typically an owner goes in and says, "here's what I want, here is what I need". They don't have time to get the story. They don't have time to ask. They have stuff to do. They have agendas, right? They have goals to reach. 

And so a lot of leaders are not slowing down. They're not taking the time to literally sit with their employees and say, "okay, tell me what's going on. What's the story?" So that's step number two.

Step number one, put your story aside. Step number two, get their story. Step number three is dig under their story. So, someone might say, "yeah, you know, I'm tired"... That's the story, that's all they give you. They give you a little tiny piece of it, but a really good leader or a really good coach will say, "well, tell me why you're tired, what happened?" And they want all the juicy details. "Oh, you went out last night. Where'd you go? Who did you go with? What happened? What made you stay out so late? Did you have a good time?" And on and on and on. 

And we're not taking the time to ask, to inquire, to understand where they're coming from. And so, many leaders come across as uncaring, uninterested. So, in your case, what you're describing is employees who say, "yeah, I'm taking my two weeks off. I'm legally entitled to them". 

[00:12:21] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

My owners. Yeah. My seller, not me. [Laughs] 

[00:12:25] Kim Ades:

I understand. 

[00:12:26] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:12:27] Kim Ades:


[00:12:27] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Yeah. And they sign a policy stating what the policy is and how much time they get and when they can take it and they have to have backup. 

[00:12:36] Kim Ades:

Right, but clearly there's a disconnect. They're not communicating. So, the owners are surprised when the employees aren't following the policy. But when did they last discuss this? Why is this such a surprise? Why isn't there planning? Why isn't there conversation? And so, what's missing is that the owners are not really understanding what these employees are believing, where they're coming from.

So chances are they believe, "yeah, everybody gets time off over the holidays. I'm entitled to it. It's the law". 

[00:13:12] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

It's not the law to take off two weeks. [Laughs] 

[00:13:15] Kim Ades:

But that's what they believe, right? That's what they believe. And so, what I'm really, really trying to say here, and this would be extremely valuable for you, is that many leaders would benefit from learning, from acquiring coaching skills. Leaders think that they know what to do. And so they wish that their employees would just do what they're told. "Do the things that I tell you to do. Do your job, do the things". 

[00:13:47] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Like what we tell our kids. [Laughs] 

[00:13:49] Kim Ades:

"Do the stuff". And what leaders are missing is that doing follows thought. First we think, then we do. And if your employees aren’t doing what you want them to do, it's because they're not thinking in a way that's lined up with your desired outcome. And so, it's important, not just to say, "Hey, just do this", it's important to understand how they're thinking. 

And that's where coaching skills come into play. That's where the ability to ask a whole bunch of questions come into play. Right? Because the truth is we think that, okay, we'll just sell our company, we'll just implement the systems, we'll just do all the things. But those employees could create a real barrier to success, as you're describing. So, what's the cost?

[00:14:43] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Well, the cost for them is, you know, you'd have to ask them, but the cost for them because they're not key employees, they're not gonna really disrupt the cell. It might be delayed a little bit, but they're not going to disrupt it. I think the big cost for them is frustration, losing, you know? Frustration, having to do it themselves.

I think one of the biggest mistakes the're making too is they're asking the employees to write the processes down instead of them going in or hiring a professional to document the processes and then they're frustrated when the employees are not writing the processes down. But I think for them, like I said, it's frustration. It costs them time, it costs them money, costs them, probably sleepless nights [chuckles] and then it costs them turnover. And we all know that turnover is one of the biggest cost in business today. 

[00:15:41] Kim Ades:

Yeah. And it's interesting, 'cause you say, "they're asking their employees to write the processes and the employees aren't writing the processes", maybe the employees in their minds say, "I don't know how to do that".

[00:15:53] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:15:54] Kim Ades:

"I don't even know where to begin. That's a huge task, that's overwhelming to me". And so again, there's the same disconnect that occurs. 

[00:16:02] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:16:02] Kim Ades:

Right? So, they don't even know why the processes aren't being written, they just know that they aren't being written. And so, understanding what's really stopping someone from performing is important and it has to do with their thinking, it has to do with their beliefs.

[00:16:18] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

And so, in your case, you have two interesting kind of groups of people that you are working with: the buyer, the seller, right? That person. But then the top level key employees who are still remaining at the company. 

Yeah. Most of the employees will remain at the company. Again, employees don't know the company's for sale, in most cases. The only time the employees would ever know is if the seller is really dumb and doesn't listen to us when we say "don't tell your employees" [chuckles] and, or the key employee needs like a CFO or something like that. But in most cases, employees never know business is for sell. 

[00:17:00] Kim Ades:

So, you see? In my mind, there are these two groups of people. Again, it's the buyer/seller, the one that you're working with directly, and then the next level right under that. And those are the two groups of people that really need coaching. Right now, you're coaching that upper level, you're telling them "here's what you need to be doing", but they also have a thinking challenge with respect to selling their business. 

It could be that they're attached to their business. It could be that they're afraid of what's going to come next. It could be that they're concerned about the financial repercussions of-- 

[00:17:36] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

The seller? 

[00:17:37] Kim Ades:

Both. Both sides, right? They have all these things that they're dealing with emotionally. And at the same time, that gets transmitted. Even though it's not consciously transmitted, it gets transmitted. And it creates like this fear, this anxiety, this discomfort in an organization. And so, again, my thought is that when you're engaging with a buyer or seller.

Let's say the seller, you're working with both upper levels in the organization, the top, top the owner, but also the immediate senior leadership team right after, because there's going to be an impact. And that might mean that you're not working with them directly, but you're partnering with a company that says, okay, you need to take care of this group because there's going to be some upheaval in the process that will smooth the waters out for you. 

Because again, there's this disconnect, there's this lack of communication taking place between what the owner needs and what the team is delivering. And every single time there's a performance issue, every single time, there are no exceptions to this rule... every single time that there's a performance issue, there's a thinking gap. And most times when we see a performance issue, we want to address it with either punishment or a correction in action. Right? "Here's what I need you to do, you need to do this by this date". 

But very few leaders look at the thinking that drives the behavior. And that's really the key for leaders who are dealing with employees who aren't performing, who aren't delivering what is needed, is to look at the thinking. And that's why we work with leaders and teach them how to do that. I know it's a little bit abstract. 

[00:19:29] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

It's not abstract. I'm hearing everything, I agree. It's not abstract. [Laughs] I mean, I've been in business for many, many years, so it's not abstract at all. It's always a problem. It's a common denominator. It's a bigger problem now that the pandemic is here, a much bigger problem. But it's always been an issue. 

[00:19:50] Kim Ades:

Always been an issue. 

[00:19:52] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

With every business owner. I mean, very sudden do I have a business owner that says "I've got a great team, they're wonderful, they do everything". I mean, it happens every now and then. But it's not the norm. 

[00:20:05] Kim Ades:

Right. And again, I find that the greatest leaders have coaching skills. And many of those leaders that are frustrated with their team are lacking those skills. You know, one of the things that I've done over the course of my career is I've literally studied and asked for owners of companies to provide us with actual data. And the data is this: I want you to rate your own coaching skills, and I want you to rate your satisfaction with your team's performance. And it's an absolute straight line. 

Those leaders who have a higher level of coaching skills are also dramatically more satisfied with the performance of their team. It's wild. It's literally a straight line. And so, when you look at your team and you say "my team isn't performing", you said it at the beginning of this conversation. 

[00:21:03] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

I didn't say "my team", I said "my owners". 

[00:21:05] Kim Ades:

No, no, I understand. Anybody.

[00:21:07] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

[Laughs] Let's just make that clear for the podcast. 

[00:21:09] Kim Ades:

Very clear. But what you said at the beginning was... the fish head or something like that?

[00:21:14] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Fishing's from the head [Laughs]. 

[00:21:16] Kim Ades:

That's right, and it's the same thing. It's the same thing. So, when there's a performance problem, we need to look at the leader and how the leader is actually going in and coaching the team. Right? So, that's the issue. And so, right now the leader wants to leave, they want to sell and they're not in the mood to coach. 

[00:21:36] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:21:36] Kim Ades:

Right? They're done with their team! They just want out at this point and their frustrations are probably higher. Yes? 

[00:21:44] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:21:45] Kim Ades:

And so this is the-- 

[00:21:46] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

I mean, I have business owners that call me all the time and say, "I want to sell", and I'm like, what's your number one reason?" "I hate my employees. I can't do it anymore". [Laughs] 

[00:21:54] Kim Ades:

Those are the people who really need to learn how to coach, and those are the people who need to get coached first, and those are the people who might save their companies, although that's not the business you're in, but those are the people who might-- 

[00:22:09] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Well, let's back up on that statement. That's not the business I am, and that's not true. That is a business I'm in, which is why I have a road to sell, which is why I partner with business owners to help save companies from going out of business.

[00:22:20] Kim Ades:


[00:22:20] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Number one. Number two, you can't sell a falling business. So, if the business is going down, like the Titanic, the likelihood of you maximizing value on that sell is slim to none. You're going to sell for pennies on the dollar closure business, or even worst fall bankruptcy. So, I am in the business of saving businesses because that's how I can sell businesses. [Laughs] 

[00:22:41] Kim Ades:

I apologize. You're 100% right. So, this is interesting, right? You're in the business of making businesses work and you're looking at the six P's and I think they're all super important.

[00:22:54] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Well, the number one P is people. You don't grow a business, you grow people and people will build the business. You don't build a business, you build the people and people build a business. 

[00:23:05] Kim Ades:

Yes, exactly. But if the leader isn't equipped to build the people, if that leader doesn't have the skillset to build the people, you're stuck. 

[00:23:14] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Yup. What a lot of entrepreneurs need to hire that person to manage their team because most entrepreneurs are not always the best managers or the best leaders. So, they either have to get coaching for themselves or they have to hire someone as the liaison, you know? 

My husband did that. He has a great liaison that handles all the employee problems cause he doesn't want to deal with it, you know? And I think if an owner themselves don't want to deal with it, then you have to hire that person that has tremendous leadership skills to be that manager, to be that team leader.

[00:23:52] Kim Ades:

Yes. And you're right, sometimes it's better to hand it off to someone else, and sometimes it's really valuable to learn those skills yourself because they go far across all tracks of life, whether you're a parent and you're leading your family, whether you're a business owner leading your team, whether you're a senior leader in an organization, and you're also leading your team. Those are really, really valuable skills to have.

[00:24:20] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

The way I look at is the owners shouldn't be leading the department heads... 

[00:24:27] Kim Ades:


[00:24:27] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

...department heads should be leading their departments. 

[00:24:30] Kim Ades:

Exactly, and they all need those skills, all of them, every single one of them.

[00:24:34] Michelle Seiler Tucker:


[00:24:34] Kim Ades:

And so, as you're thinking about all of your areas of development, one of the areas of development absolutely needs to be making sure whoever is leading the people acquires the coaching skills that they need. 

But before we go, I want to hear about your book and where can people find it. 

[00:24:54] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Sure! So, Exit Rich was launched in June of 2021. It's supposed to come out in 2020, but you know, there's pandemic, we had to pivot [chuckles].

[00:25:02] Kim Ades:

Of course. 

[00:25:03] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

So, it's a Wall Street Journal bestseller, it's a USA Today bestseller, endorsed by Steve Forbes that says Exit Rich is a goldmine for entrepreneurs, as most entrepreneurs leave way too much money on the table. And he also says 80% businesses will never sell, so you must wait to exit rich. And then Sharon Lechter... Have you heard of Sharon Lechter? 

[00:25:21] Kim Ades:

I have not.

[00:25:22] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Oh, you are the first person that has not heard of Sharon Lechter that I've spoken to! She wrote-- 

[00:25:27] Kim Ades:

I'm Canadian, so, who knows? What did she write? 

[00:25:29] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

She wrote Rich Dad with Robert Kiyosaki. 

[00:25:32] Kim Ades:

Oh yes. Okay, yes, we know that book. 

[00:25:34] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Yeah. So, she's my coauthor. Kevin Harrington, original shark on Shark Tank, lots of forward. So Exit Rich is not about selling your business, Kim. Exit Rich is about building a sustainable, scalable business, so when you're ready to exit, you actually have a sellable asset. The reason 80% of businesses don't sell is because they don't create a business that buyers actually want to buy. 

So, that's what Exit Rich is all about. It's all about the road to sell, it's all about the net sustainable, scalable business that works for you rather than you working for it. Because most business owners have created a glorified job that they go to work every day versus a business that actually works for them. So, Exit Rich is really, like I said, a gold mine for building. 

And who is it for? It's for all entrepreneurs, it's for anybody that owns a business, operates a business, even acquiring a business because it tells you what to look for when you're acquiring a company. And so, you can get Exit Rich, if you're in Canada, go to Amazon [chuckles] 'cause the shipping costs are ridiculous. 

[00:26:33] Kim Ades:

Amazon.com, yes? 

[00:26:35] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Amazon.com. You can also go to your favorite bookstore in the United States. You can also go to exitrichbook.com and when you buy Exit Rich, we have other golden nuggets, you know, an additional value. Number one, we provide all the operating documents to sell your business. So, like sample employee handbooks, non-compete, org charts, to sell your business, we have a sample letter of intents, sample purchase agreements.

Most business owners have never even seen an LOI. We have due diligence checklist, we have closing documents, everything you need to operate and start your business is there. And Kim, I don't know if you know what attorneys cost, but I am convinced they charged per word [laughs] because if you went to try to recreate all this it'll cost you over $50,000 to do so.

And so, we give all that extra value with Exit Rich. Plus there's video content and we doing deep dives and different strategies or techniques that I'm intention for the last 20 years. And you and I kind of we're singing the same tune, because if you don't have good people, if you don't have good employees, if you don't have good leadership, it is going to be more difficult to sell. Eventually this is not going to be sustainable and you'll never be able to scale it. 

[00:27:40] Kim Ades:

I think that what you have here is so important, and I can't tell you how many of my clients would benefit from knowing you and reading your book. So, I'm going to put it-- you know, a lot of people say, "what are the books that I should read?" I'm going to read it, but then I'm going to put it in my library of books that people should read. I think it's so important because they are unprepared. 

You're 100% right. All the documentation they need, the contracts, the LOI and noncompetes, all of that. I can't tell you how many times we have discussed that in coaching. "Make sure you have a noncompete". "Oh, do you have an example of that? Can you send me one that I can use?" Right? I cannot tell you how many times I've encountered that. So, I am excited to look at your book. I think it's really great. And I hope that perhaps down the road we'll have a chance to collaborate. 

I think it's very, very interesting what you do, and there's a very interesting kind of a marriage that needs to happen with respect to preparing the company and preparing the leader. And so, we should definitely talk about that. 

[00:28:41] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

That's why we have the roads to sell program. And like I said before, fishing's from the head and I was just on a call with a company the other day and they have a unique business and they're trying to grow it, and I said, "who's the bottleneck? And I said "wait, don't answer. Let me answer. You're the bottleneck" and I pointed at the owner on the Zoom call and he's like, "yep, I'm the bottleneck". [Laughs] 

And they need a lot of work. So, they're going to be on our road to sell program, you know, doing the evaluation, going through the six P's et cetera. But yeah, leadership is a huge, huge, huge deal because if you don't have the right people, it could kill the deal for sure. 

[00:29:17] Kim Ades:

A hundred percent. 

[00:29:18] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Yeah. Well, we definitely should be working together [Laughs]. 

[00:29:22] Kim Ades:

Yeah. [Chuckes] Michelle, it was so great to meet you. I can't wait to read your book.

[00:29:26] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Thank you. 

[00:29:26] Kim Ades:

Please, again, people, if you want to find it, look for it on amazon.com. The book is called Exit Rich, we cannot forget that. 

[00:29:35] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

And you can go exitrichbook.com as well. For anybody that lives in the United States, you could get immediate access to all the bonuses. But if you live in another country, please don't go to exitrichbook.Com because the shipping cost is really, extremely expensive.

And so anyway, also I was going to tell you that I have a podcast for every one of your listeners that would like to listen, go to Exit Rich, and we'll have you on my podcast as well. 

[00:30:02] Kim Ades:

Amazing, I look forward to that. Michelle, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

[00:30:06] Michelle Seiler Tucker:

Thank you, Kim. 

[00:30:06] Kim Ades:

For those of you who are listening, if you have a business that you want to get ready, that you want to practice sell, go read the book, go find Michelle. It sounds like she knows her stuff inside and out. Please go and find her. 

If you have a challenge that you want to talk about on the podcast, please reach out to me. My email address is Kim@frameofmindcoaching.com. If you have a challenge that you want to talk about, but maybe not so much on the podcast, please reach out to me as well. My email address again is Kim@frameofmindcoaching.com

And if there is a young person in your world that could use some support, a young professional that maybe could use affordable and accessible executive level coaching, please check out The Journal That Talks Back™. It's new, it's exciting. We're super proud of that work and we'd love your support. Like, share, do all the things that you're supposed to do with a podcast. And we will see you next week. Have a great week.

linkedin icon